sinnesspiel | Shiki Novel Translations 2.2.0

Entry tags:

shiki,
shiki: notes

Shiki Novel Translations 2.2.0

Links to Chapter 2

Chapter 2 - 1
Chapter 2 - 2
Chapter 2 - 3
Chapter 2 - 4
Chapter 2 - 5
Chapter 2 - 6

No cultural notes this chapter, unless I've overlooked something!

So instead I'll give a visual progress report:

These are the two volumes of Shiki, with a roll of toilet paper beside them for size reference.
The bookmark shows where we are in Volume 1 right now, at the end of Part 2, Chapter 2.6, page 351.

This is an internal shot; pages are double-layer printed. Keep this in mind when comparing the time it takes to translate light novels that don't look so much thinner.

These are a Knights of Ramune & 40 Fire novel and a Sotsugyou II (Graduation: Neo Generation) novel, respectively. Print size and spacing is typical. In terms of sheer physical thickness, the average light novel looks to be about 3/4ths the length of a single Shiki novel and they usually come in at 250-300 pages, but the print size and spacing makes the difference in volume more pronounced than that. In the 5 volume larger print version, each part comes out to about 500 pages. In typical light novel printing standards, we'd be around 700 pages.

Coincidentally this is why I predict another two years or so to completion; you might look at the current rate of progress and think "We're more than halfway through book 1. By June, couldn't we be done with book 1 and maybe even have a start into book 2, which could then be conquered in about another year for a year and a half?" Those extra 200 pages that make book 2 longer than 1 are nothing to scoff at, since they come out to about 4x as much volume per page as a typical light novel.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Book 2's so big! Did the authoress mean to split it up into 2 books or did it get like that when it was published, because it was so long?

Do you read the double layer like starting at the top half right to left straight across 2 pages and then go back down to the bottom right, or do you read by whole pages?

You read a full page at a time; top row, bottom row, next page top row, bottom row.

I haven't read any interviews about Shiki, but given that volume 2 was printed within months of volume 1, I'd assume she basically had the whole thing written at once before publishing it. That's an awful lot to write, proofread and edit in a few short months. But then, she tends to write serialized novels, if her past and later works are any indication... Shiki is, to my knowledge, her only non-light novel work.

I'm a little disappointed that whenever I look up anything on her, it's all 12 Kingdoms or Ghost Hunt.

A well-thought out work like Shiki would take a lot of time, though. I'm thinking for light novels, somebody could potentially scribble down a lot of stuff filled with dialogue and publish it really fast, but with Shiki she has all that scenery and *shudder* cicada imagery, and she also has to keep track of her own storm of characters...so I agree, it would make more sense to just write it all out first.

I wish Ono would do more non-light novel work. She did such a good job on Shiki, and it's completely unrecognizable if you read that, compared to Ghost Hunt which I also read part of. It seems like two different writing styles and two different authors! However, since all 3 got anime adaptations, I guess they all must have pretty good quality, so she's undoubtedly a great author. If I had her writing skills, I'd write more Shiki-esque works; it seems a lot more interesting to work on a long work like this rather than light novels.

Isn't she married to the man who wrote Another? I wonder if they inspire each other. Apart from 12 Kingdoms, all their novels have to do with the supernatural.

That difference in writing style might be because of the translator, too. What are the differences? I only know her other series through the anime and manga, really... I notice a thematic difference, like, that Shiki is as much about a message as it is a story, and I like the slow flow that doesn't feel like it needs to have an episodic arc with a solved story bit in every book/episode/season building up to the grand story. For example, in all of Crows, you couldn't really say there's a climax or conclusion or the usual parts of a story, whereas almost every single episode of Shiki (and to a lesser extent, most chapters of the manga) has to open and end with a cliffhanger and there are more distinct arcs (for example, the "Natsuno dies arc" is almost the only thing happening for a good three episode stretch after Setsuko's death).

I usually like works completed in one go more, like movies or games or full one-shot novels, for that reason. I appreciate the work that goes into episode pacing and working that into a greater narrative, and I certainly think that actually takes considerably more talent. But even so I still am more moved by single shot works. I also prefer series whose ends are written out from the start with a planned trajectory. The main draw to me for serialized works is that there's more 'filler' to get me attached to the characters, as characters are the main determinant of my love for a work. Shiki is long enough that its 'filler' is a few sentences here or there of chapter fluff interaction, giving me all the characterization I usually want from fillers or episodes of something serialized. So Shiki is really just written to hit my sweet spot.

In Ghost Hunt's case, I don't think the translation makes the difference...although it's a pretty bad one and shifts between past and present tense all the damn time. That's just the one I read though, there could be more floating around somewhere. But the sentence structure is different too; there's hardly any setting descriptions at all and it's mostly all dialogue--unless a translator would add that kind of padding themselves, the original would be very different from the Shiki original still.

That's not even getting started on the actual story; Shiki reads like a chronicle, an account of many characters of Sotoba. It's actually kind of like Lord of the Rings which is like a saga about Middle Earth; Shiki is also a saga about Sotoba. Ghost Hunt however just focuses on a few characters (I won't go into plot summary since you've seen the anime or manga) and they're actually well characterized, but they don't have so much baggage as their Shiki counterparts. That's not saying Ghost Hunt isn't enjoyable to read because it is, but in a totally different way. Most significantly it's in first person, but also it's more shoujo-style where the main heroine tries to get to know her boss better and get an understanding of her own powers. I still like to read that kind of stuff, but it's more of a guilty pleasure! Not something I could discuss or dissect its meaning, as it's pretty straightforward.

I was just thinking that I liked Shiki for that same reason! I like the slow pace of it, even in the anime which is lightning fast compared to the novel. I really enjoyed the slow, creeping horror factor about it that makes it a scary story; it's really hard to get that right, and somehow Shiki just does it. I also adore reading the novel here because of those fillers; the characters are fleshed out--both minor and major. Minor characters who get skimmed over in the adaptations become real people with just a little characterization done right, and we also get never-before-seen insight into my favorite characters (Toshio)...and those who are not (Seishin, I still can't get myself to like him!). Maybe that's the reason that Shiki isn't really wildly popular, but has a circle of cult followers; it's kind of geared towards an audience that like that kind of stuff, but it definitely doesn't work for everyone. You can't look up reviews about Shiki online without seeing words like 'slow' and 'boring' and that makes offended like "How dare you, you must be blind and deaf you moron!" but the same slow pacing that we like can just bore some people, I guess.

Japanese novels tend to shift tense quite a lot between past and present. I just defaulted to making it past tense.

Opening Book 2 (I have Book 1 at work) up to a random page for an example, I immediately find a passage which, if translated accurately in regards to tense, would read:

Yes, Takatoshi nods. As if just remembering, Tatsumi called out to stop Takatoshi who was turning to leave.

"Ah---And also," Tatsumi gives a pity-filled smile to Takatoshi who turns back to him. "It was no good for your mother.

Takatoshi briefly closed his eyes, then cast them downward.
"....Is that right."
"There was a rotting smell. She won't rise. ...It's too bad, isn't it?"

No, Tatatoshi murmured.

I think I vaguely recall putting some things into present tense because it had a stronger effect and I will probably continue to do so in suspense scenes or scenes that seem very caught up in the moment, but in English it's just poor grammar most of the time to be so inconsistent, and I don't see anything potentially lost by putting most things into past tense. In character dialogue (re: most manga and anime--pretty much everything I translate but novels) I'll keep the tense, because conversationally this kind of switch is fairly common.

"I went to the store with my friend this one time. We went to the liquor isle, when he says to me "Hilarious dialogue here." We're both just yucking it up, rolling on the floor right there in the liquor isle, practically wetting ourselves with laughter. Then a store attendant came and started yelling at us."

As a conversational third person narrator about two people he knows:
"He went to the store with his friend once. They were in the liquor isle when he says to him "Hilarious dialogue here." They both yuck it up, they're rolling on the floor right there in the liquor isle, practically wetting themselves with laughter. Then a store attendant came and started yelling at them."

As a non-conversational narrator it would come out to:

"He went to the store with his friend once. They went to the liquor isle where his friend said "Hilarious dialogue here." They both yucked it up, rolling on the floor right there in the liquor isle, practically wetting themselves with laughter. Then a store attendant came and started yelling at them."

In Japanese, it can be kept more like the former, but if it were kept that way in English narration, it would feel like we're being told a story by a third party viewing character, not the omniscient, non-characterized narrator. I did fret a little over whether to respect the Japanese narrative tenses, and that's how I came to the decision I did, based on tonal affect; other translators may have just chosen to be more accurate, and far be it from me to fault them for that, particularly when I go the same route when I think it's important enough. I'm more likely to keep the given tense in Seishin's novel excerpts since it's already pretty abstract and a part of me considers it like character dialogue (Seishin's, to himself), for example.

Ghost Story is first person, huh? I'm surprised Ono professed concern that male fans would hate Naru if Mai hooked up with him, then; most female narrated works are considered almost the domain of shoujo and female readers (with exceptions, to be sure; Slayers, for example, is a famous sword and sorcery series that started with some novels narrated by the very feminine Lina Inverse, and it's beloved by plenty of male fans). Maybe she meant more in general that that's why she won't write pairs in the future... or maybe she just felt love for her very likely far fewer male readers of that series, too. Many series do blur the typical genre fan lines---Fullmetal Alchemist, for example, is extremely stock shounen, but equally if not more popular with female fans (I suspect in no small part because of the bishounen cast, and an early anime that came out when the manga was barely at volume 5/27, which made the until then mostly unknown series popular and focused a lot more on emotions and drama than the more straight-stock-shounen manga). When they made an anime series based on the more straight shounen manga and specifically tried to aim it at the manga's original audience by making it easier to understand for children, etc., it tanked as far as ratings and sales (but was much more popular with the preexisting fanbase).

The novel is really impressing me with its characterization of the side nobodies! We've talked a lot about how much more it fleshes out Toshio and Seishin, already mains, but, man, it's amazing how much more Takami sticks with me just for having him have a quick casual, sympathetic work chat with Toshio for a scene. Whenever I rewatch the anime, Tashiro's face actually sticks out to me now, as does Hirosawa, as does Mutou. That Mutou doesn't engage in the Shiki killing, while his boss Toshio and his friend Yuuki do feels like a more layered social decision for having those scenes of them interacting. Fuki went from "death number whatever, gotta establish a bunch of deaths quickly here" to "Kanami's mom's friend, who felt fear yet reported nothing even before being bitten into silence, who seemed to have the chance to escape her death but didn't want to leave her undead son visiting her" with two little sub-chapters of focus and some vague implications when Tae was talking to Seishin and Toshio.

I can't wait to see more Ritsuko and Kaori, two of my favorites who get quite a bit of screen time already, but whom I hope to get more out of in the novels. I remember being really touched by Nurse Kiyomi's "I'm saying it IS your fault Satoko left, is that not what you're hearing? I sympathize with you, but get it together, doctor." scene in the anime, so any little scene with his medical staff has the potential to excite me. It's amazing how little it takes to build love for a character who adds to the atmosphere when there are so many of them. It's like even if the village is a pain in the ass, I get how Toshio certainly can't abandon it with his medical team and a few good people there counting on him. Seishin's temple crew, particularly Ikebe, are newly memorable, too. Ozaki's medical crew got some coverage, but Seishin's temple crew were pretty forgettable, with Tsurumi basically just showing his face a few times before dying, making it harder to care about him when he was Shiki'd and begging Mitsuo for help. Now I have a solid feel for him as a good, firm, old fashioned "adult" monk of high morals who's still ultimately the straight man to Ikebe's funnyman, and very human.

If I had picked up the book first, I might sympathize with those who find it too slow. But I picked it up because I loved these characters and wanted more of them and their world, so admittedly for me it'd be really hard to make it "too slow." As long as there's more, I'm happy.

In Sunako crazy speak: I want to make this work live for me and to be the only one to kill and end it...! Pity be unto this work that is precious to me!

I didn't know that was a common thing in Japanese writing! Is that just a Japanese cultural style or is it common in East Asia? Are there rules regarding when to use past and when to use present, or is it just randomly in there (or depends on the author, I suppose)?

Well I'm glad you stuck to past tense, because or else it would be impossible to read. It's one thing to keep something that only requires a little bit of getting used to (like Japanese honorifics--if you know what they mean, they don't detract from reading at all and all it takes is just a quick Google search to learn about them, or look at the cultural notes which have a lovely explanation), but another thing to make it so it consistently makes reading difficult. I guess I could eventually get used to the tense shifts, but some things should be translated all the way through. Besides like you said, the narration style would change, so then the meaning might shift a little bit too, and I think the past tense English captures the tone of the story best.

I thought the Ghost Hunt anime was pretty shoujo, but the novel was even more so imo. It was a very quick, very easy read and despite the fact that the way it was translated made it seem like it had poor grammar, I really did enjoy it. Although I prefer shounen works, I sometimes do take advantage of The Other Type which is targeted toward my demographic. I think that if she wanted to, Ono could have made the romance work. If she was worried about male fans liking the way it happened, she could have taken the shounen approach where the guy realizes the likes the girl, usually at the very end. That's the difference between shoujo and shounen romances I've heard; shoujo romances start off with a relationship beginning, and then over the course of the story they work out their problems, whereas shounen shows the process of getting into the relationship. So in that case, Ghost Hunt is more of a shounen romance apart from the fact that it's from the girl's point of view. I think one way she could have done it would be for Mai to become more independent from Naru and then do something to make him slowly realize he liked her all along. Because neither the anime or the novel (I didn't read the manga) really let us into his thoughts. I never thought that Ono would be concerned with male fans though; her novels always kind of stated Mai's feelings and daydreams about being with Naru: I think one instance she narrated, "That's Naru. He's rude, tactless, etc. But you can't choose who you fall in love with." Like whoa! It could just be that she thinks writing romance isn't a talent of hers and doesn't want to have a quality failure during the hookup scene and disappoint her fans, who would have expected it to be well executed. Or she's not comfortable with writing romance in general, which I can understand too. Whenever I (occasionally!) attempt writing fiction, it never goes down that route.

I heard that FMA Brotherhood is by far better than the first series! It makes a lot of sense because anime that are adapted from manga are usually always better than those that are anime first, or even worse that gecko ending. Kind of like Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro, if you've ever seen it: I really liked the manga, but the anime was made before its conclusion and has a really dumb ending (I could only suffer through like five episodes). Some fans hoped it would go down the "FMA route" and get a new adaptation but I don't think it's popular enough for that.

I'm amazed at how effortlessly the side nobodies are characterized! Like you don't even notice it at first glance, but then you look back and it's like, they're all individuals now. In a roundabout way, characterizing side characters kind of characterizes the main ones too; the reader starts seeing the periphery as people, in other words the same way as Toshio and Seishin see them. Their actions start making more sense; Seishin cares about them as individuals, and it's easy to see why because they're all so different, so alive, it's hard to kill the ones whose only crime was to be unlucky enough to get targeted by the shiki. Toshio wants to save the entire village as a whole, and as we watch the fear spreading through everyone's household, it's easy to see why. Although it's just a small, boring village in the mountains, it's full of diverse and real peole just like any other place, and every single person in it makes it special.

Aah, I liked Kaori and Ritsuko a lot too! Especially Kaori. I sympathize with her a lot. The first time I watched Shiki I thought she was annoying, but after I thought about it a little bit I decided she was a very good character and I'm glad she was all right at the end. She's arguably the most normal character (and most normal-looking character too amirite) and her reactions to getting thrown into the shiki mess are exactly what you'd expect with a young girl like her. She would've been more well-liked if she were proactive and ready to start gravedigging, but not everyone can do that and I felt like I could step into her shoes because I'm not sure I would have behaved differently in her situation. She's not ready to dive into the supernatural, and she's kind of sitting on the fence even while Akira and Natsuno have already jumped over it.

Although the story is long and slow-paced, I've never gotten bored with it. My favorite chapters still include Ozaki, but it's still a delight to read about the other villagers and see them as individuals instead of as background characters. Each chapter adds to the whole work, none of them is an extra. Every time I read I can't imagine how it would be like if I hadn't discovered Shiki because I like it so much!

"This book is mine. My own, my Precious. I will have it forever and then I will kill it before anyone else will." chucks it into the fireplace (or more appropriately, buries it)

The only Asian language I know is Japanese, so I'm not sure on general East Asian languages. However, despite my examples above about how in English tense switching feels (to me--I haven't read any English linguistic studies on this particular aspect) more like a personal narrative, in Japanese it's just the opposite; indeed, it was not a phenomenon I had encountered enough to notice when I was only translating works that were strictly dialogue, or interviews or such. I might have seen it now and then in manga that have 'narrative' openers or interludes, but I didn't pick up on it as a trend until I started playing visual novels which are less dialogue driven.

Even when characters are narrating a story they don't switch often... Unelss they're intentionally narrating like a novel. Death Note's BB Murder case is narrated by Mello and reads like a standard omniscient narrator novel, though with some of his "character" in the start. Plenty of visual novels are also first person and are similar; they may be a character narrating but it still ultimately has more of the 'omnisceint narrator' feel than the conversational narrative types (even though the narrative characters are not actually omniscient). Note that above, despite the third sample being an "omniscient narrator" sample it doesn't preclude a distinct writing style within the 'omniscient narrator' label, through word choice ("yucking it up"), etc. Seishin's omniscient narrator voice sounds, I think, a bit different from Ono's throughout the rest of Shiki, most of the time.

But say in Ace Attorney games where they are witnesses "narrating" a fairly long story in their testimonies, it remains consistently past tense.

Thus the tense switching in Japanese is, opposite of my impression in English, narrative rather than conversational. A part if this is also because of how past tense/perfect tenses are used in Japanese compared to English; in English, we can say "Masao is happy" in a narrative or when just talking. In Japanese, "Masao wa ureshii" sounds like a line out of fiction rather than a natural statement; you may learn in Japanese classes that this is because we must add markers like 'sou' if reporting on someone else's emotional state because we cannot be certain of it. You might notice there's a lot of "x seemed happy as they said" or "seeming bewildered, x did this" in this translation, which strikes us as odd in English; the authoress can indeed fully know the emotional states of her characters, so even if we understand this is how one talks in Japanese, why is she writing like this? Because of the difference between telling and showing--and not the style you learn about in creative writing classes where we learn that showing is always better than telling. This is the linguistic concept we're talking about here: in writing there's a changing distance between the narrative (and thus the readers) and the characters. Narrators can and do add their thoughts and awareness on top of the characters; switching between how close or far the text is from the characters, readers then process it and parse out the difference, perceiving what the author tells them and feeling what they show them. One text I read on narrative tenses on English tenses (while deciding whether to go with consistent tenses or accurate tenses) theorized that the reason we can 'show' in present tense and add thought or feeling in past tense is because the past tense is the time for our cognition or feeling--and indeed, the past tense 'Masao wa ureshikatta' feels more comfortable in Japanese even though 'Masao is happy' is as valid in any form of English as 'Masao was happy.' In that case, past tense in Japanese is perhaps the author's cognition; the author is telling us that emotional state (or the appearance of it). If it's present tense, then, it's more showing. You can't linguistically show that a character is happy--you can show that they take action and that action may show it. You can show that Takatoshi nods, you can show that Tatsumi gives an emotive smile. You can tell we're supposed to be narratively closer to Takatoshi--he perceives or is shown Tatsumi's smile. The point of that sentence is not for us to perceive or suppose that Tatsumi as a character is sympathetic, it's to show that Takatoshi is the recipient of it. This is supported by the fact that the entire rest of the sentences around it are about what Takatoshi does or thinks; Tatsumi is a prop there to act on Takatoshi. Given that Japanese sentences are also entirely prone to removing the subjects of sentences, many present tense sentences may lack the third person pronouns of 'he' or 'Takatoshi' and in fact another way to capture some of those present tense ones would be to flip them to present tense thoughts or impressions of characters or switch the translation to making it about Takatoshi perceiving that smile. However, that's more textual alteration than I'm comfortable with, particularly when it's based purely on linguistic theory. At times, when the impact of present tense narrative is distinctly stronger, I'll break the rules of English grammar and use it, and for some that is surely too subjective in itself. To maintain the sense of distance, show, and tell, I'm keeping the perhaps strange in English "seems" for things the narrator could objectively tell us in English and counting on other narrative cues and structures to guide the audience's feelings and sympathies. I think standard English tense better allows readers to perceive the work as objectively as possible, compared to tense switching which I think would hinder the omniscient narrative tone and thus its modulated distances.

Others may disagree and I certainly won't hold it against other translators if they feel keeping the tenses in English would better allow readers to come to their own conclusions. As someone familiar with the Japanese tense switch habit, I think such a translation would serve me better. Me. But even if I culture note it to death like this, I don't think readers not deeply familiar with Japanese will be able to perceive it through such an academic/linguistic lens, nor do I think it's appropriate to expect them to any more than I think it's appropriate to expect all fans to learn full Japanese. Forms of address and culture words? Absolutely. Full on grammatical structures and syntax? No. Everyone has the line on how much they think translators should translate, and that's mine. I'm more than happy to detail the nine hells out of it like this for anyone interested (and you probably did not want this essay), but I don't think it's as mandatory (nor as simple) as, say, -kun, -chan, -san, etc.

In the interview for Ghost Hunt she said their story would be over as soon as they hooked up, so it seems she has a Shounen view of things; the exciting part's getting them together, who cares after that? Though, I think a lot of shoujo works go that route too, or at least focus a lot on them breaking up. I got the impression Naru might have some interest in Mai, but the sibling rivalry issue is sure to cloud that. I can see where she's coming from in her concern that if she writes a romance, that character tension's gone from it. I'm a little less on board with her not writing a happy ending when it's over if that's what she wants, but fan expectations can be scary, and at any rate it seems the stories and tension are what she wants the focus on as a writer, not necessarily the ending. ---Eh? Does that mean she's primed to write yaoi? (Yama nashi, Ochi nashi, Imi nashi - No climax, no point, no meaning?)

Haha... I actually think Brotherhood was absolutely terrible. It's the one that had the crap ratings. As you know even as someone who's not even a fan, even if it didn't hook the masses, it's much more popular with pre-existing fans; I imagine no small part of that is the fact that it gave a happy ending to everybody ("Everybody" being characters I suspect a decent portion became endeared to from the former anime), whereas the series that actually made FMA popular, the first anime did not, to put it lightly. I think the first anime's story was better thought out in that it relied a lot less on an absurd number of coincidences, smart characters (on both sides) going full retard, and deus ex machinas. I think the first anime was a rare case of the "gecko" ending being better. But I also agree with the message of the first anime, which is an outright opposite direction counter argument to the message of the manga/Brotherhood, so of course I'm going to think that. The manga (and Brotherhood) tries to be an aggressively positive "work hard and you will be rewarded, maybe not the way you wish, but that hard work will be its own reward; let go of your ego and embrace the importance of family, friends, and being a good person for its own sake" work overflowing with hope and happy endings. The first anime went the other way; "hard work, sacrifice and effort sometimes comes to nothing and in fact can go the polar opposite direction; even just trying to be a good person can be a disaster and good intentions don't erase your sins. Also, many of your family and friends are likewise people with their own sins and flaws and they won't necessarily give you happiness; they have their own goals and lives and issues." With that in mind I also think it's natural that so many parts of the fandom would be at each other's throats. The first anime writer's entire plot was a big "fuck you" to the original's message. The manga/second anime failed to address many of the counters to its message that were brought up in that "counter argument" anime that gave it its fame, despite having more than 5 years on it to do so. Brotherhood's director even stated explicit intent to make the work easy to understand for children and to make it simpler, which it did, but is that necessarily the best approach for a work that's trying to touch on some pretty heavy themes? In many ways I think the first anime was more "loyal" on the parts it was the same on for letting certain things be thematic and important rather than a touch and go plot point to get to more AWESOME SHOUNEN ACTION TIME.

Onto Ritsuko and Kaori, I always loved Kaori-chan~ Sure, she had some idiot moments, but I like that she was so doggedly dedicated to Megumi and her panic and fear were so sympathetically tangible. I also like that while she's kind of an idiot and a dorky little doormat, she's surprisingly assertive sometimes. She can be cutely sassy at times, but not so much it's grating. ...It might just come down to the fact that she hits my moe points. She's like a megane-ko without glasses. I want to protect her and make it all okay, but I also want to bully her nicely...

I will let Sotoba burn when I am good and ready and done with this book, damn it. No hairy footed midgets are going to take it to a volcano.

Eh? Motoko-chan? What are you doing with that gas canister----

Edited 2014-01-13 07:29 (UTC)

I'm taking an AP course in English composition, and it always carps about 'parallel structure' which is keeping the tense the same throughout. This applies to actions, like instead of saying 'I like biking, to fish, and sometimes I hunt' (which would sound mildly okay in regular speech but it's a big no in written English) the correct sentence structure would be 'I like biking, fishing, and sometimes hunting' or 'I like to bike, to fish, and sometimes to hunt' or 'I bike, fish, and sometimes hunt'. Also it applies to narratives where if you're writing a novel, it has to be all past tense or all present tense. So I guess that's just how different the two languages are.

There just aren't a lot of novels in English, I guess, where the narrator is conversational. I could actually see them mixing the tenses and making sense if they did it, but that would also imply that this happened long ago and the character is reminiscing the whole time. Not saying that such stories don't exist, but the narrator's thoughts are usually immersed in the story too so that there's suspense; having a conversational narrator implies that it's a memoir or that he or she is all right. Sometimes stories can mix that though, for example start out saying "It's been 10 years since that time. I was sitting on my porch swing, and then suddenly I'm falling through the air. But I remember it like it was yesterday..." and then it's a standard past tense narration.

There are places, though, where you can slip in present tense without sounding too weird. I think a lot of the mid-20th century authors did that, experimenting with writing? I went over contemporary American literature too, and during that time period authors liked to experiment with punctuation and tense to make their work abstract rather than the usual narrative. I didn't really like the style myself, but just saying it has been done. I've never actually cognitively noticed a shift in your translations before! Which means that you must have slipped it in quite seamlessly.

I think that if I was reading Shiki in its original tense forms, I would not be able to enjoy it as much, or rather, picture the events happening in my head I guess. I don't think it would capture the serious and solemn mood of the series very well. And the mood is arguably more important than tense accuracy. Kind of like choosing to say 'Doctor Ozaki' rather than 'Ozaki sensei', because it's an English equivalent that makes the translation more effective because it allows the reader to understand it in their own language. You could've also chosen to write Shiki in present tense; I wonder how it would be different if you had!

And you're wrong saying I don't want the essay! I always enjoy reading your explanations on the language and translations, it's like extra cultural notes. And you explain everything very well. I always want to write something equally insightful, but it doesn't come to mind easily..

Another reason Ono might not want to write NaruxMai would be because it's not left up to the readers' imaginations anymore. After so many volumes of novel and manga material (and an anime too!) everyone who likes the pairing probably imagines them hooking up in a different way, so if she were to make an 'official' hookup, more fans would probably be put out because it's not how they imagined it. The way she has it now, it's definitely implied that they'll be a couple eventually, so at least we get one kind of closure. Unless she stops resisting the Yaoi Call and pairs Naru with Lin. That's what I would do if I were the author of a successful series. As the series approached its end I would keep moving towards the fan-preferred couple canon, and then at the end pair half of the Power Couple with someone totally unexpected and troll all of my fans that way. Kind of like Bleach's Tite Kubo: Orihime got a lot of hate from fans, so he said "the more hate she gets, the more screentime she will receive".

Ohhh, I didn't know that (about the first anime being good)! I kind of assumed that everyone hated it but I guess not. I always keep meaning to watch FMA, which is like an anime classic, so I don't have experience with it, but from the description it sounds like I would also enjoy the first one more than the other. Although I like lighthearted works sometimes, I always go for the really dark and more, like, morally complicated ones like Shiki, or Fate/Zero which is another one of my favorites. Well either way, I think that FMA fans are pretty lucky to get two entirely different but both well-made (depending which one you prefer) adaptations. Depending how you want to look at it, you can enjoy the same characters acting out different plotlines and stories; not many other anime have that variety. The only other I can think of is Escaflowne (the series vs. its movie), but it's not series v. series so it's not the same.

I like how Kaori is a good female character without being obnoxious and action girl-y. She definitely has her insecurities and follows someone around for no good reason, but when the going gets tough, Kaori gets going. Remember when Mr. Yuuki refused to let her and Akira stand guard over Natsuno and she said they can guard outside his window? Akira: O-outside? Kaori: Are you scared? Yeah, Kaori! Go get em!! Hmm, Kaori is polite, dorky, soft-spoken...just like a certain monk. Heheheh, does Seishin hit your moe points as well?

Motoko is going to bite off the fingers that are holding the book and then jump into the volcano herself. "Nassssty translatorses..."

There are quite a few novels with conversational narrators who switch tense--Catcher in the Rye comes to mind. The default is, as you described, the historical past (which is in English just regular past tense). Coincidentally, when past events are described in present tense, it's called the historical present. The story is told as if the point we're reading is a continuous now, and if a historical present is used in an otherwise past tense narrative, it seems to be to separate events. In Catcher, he switches to present tense a lot when injecting a thought over something past tense he's describing, or when specifying the continuous now to the story he's telling.

It’s supposed to be religious as hell, I know, and very pretty and all, but I can’t see anything religious or pretty, for God’s sake, about a bunch of actors carrying crucifixes all over the stage. When they all finished and started going out the boxes again, you could tell they could hardly wait to get a cigarette of something.

Japanese tense shifts don't serve the same time-framing purpose. It could be argued to serve the narrator-overlap purpose, with the show-tell thing, but we don't do that in English the same way--it feels very conversational, the narrator who does it so clearly isn't invisible. Shiki's narrator, most narrators, are invisible.

I got the impression Ono drifted away from Naru/Mai when the version of Naru Mai was finding sympathetic and interesting was actually his brother, but I don't know the novels. She expressed concerns with fan upset, not just the tension of will they or won't they, so I assume she doesn't really want to make pairings too vital, but then again, it's shoujo, relationships are what it does. I really don't know GH that well in full. I might be talking out my ass.

A lot of people do hate the first FMA anime. You're getting a biased account from me, I mean, I'd put Brotherhood in the Top 5 worst anime I've ever seen, probably the top 3, and I have sat through an awful lot of shit. I consider it bad in the sense that I think it failed at delivering the mood and messages it was trying to deliver; there are many terrible anime that I can't put in a top 5 shit slot because the series didn't fail at anything, it just didn't try to be much. I think Brotherhood was terrible on an expressive and on a general production level.

Here's an interesting experiment! You don't know 2003 from Brotherhood, right?

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4

(The entire folder is here if you want to comment on any more of them).

Just say top on bottom when referencing any differences you notice in how well the shots are draw, colored, how they're composed, backgrounds, use of angles, tone, expression, all that pretentious nuance stuff. Both series were made by the same studio and in most cases I was able to find a scene from a very similar angle with a similar emotion for the characters.

A lot of anime have differing canons and fandom's basically cool with it--I think most people enjoy both forms of Escaflowne and even if they strongly prefer one (always the series it seems), I don't see too much HAAAATE for the opposite. That the fact that the 2003 anime didn't just do something different, but sought to undermine the manga's message puts fans of each more likely at odds. It's not just "different tastes" it's in many ways opposing tastes.

Kaori hits my moe points. Seishin's the asshole who saw Kaori in her state of desperation and chose to self-pityingly betray humanity right after. There's also the fact that I don't have the urge to protect him--while neither he nor Kaori necessarily need it, both being quite capable when in a corner, when HE gets it together and becomes a man of action, I can't cheer for him the way I can Kaori. When Kaori gets ballsy, it's almost always a "Hell, yeah! Go, Kaori, go!" moment. I'd want to perk her up and get her going. Hell, I even pity her father, but cheered for her declaring her right to live no matter who wanted to hurt her. If I perked up and got Seishin going, he'd do things I don't like, probably. In many ways it's like the FMA thing; Kaori meshes with my worldview, Seishin doesn't, so while they're similar, if you ask me Kaori is wonderful and Seishin's a dick.

Catcher in the Rye is one book I haven't gotten to reading yet, but yeah, like that passage shows, it's really easy sometimes to seamlessly switch in the tenses. The Catcher in the Rye passage sounds natural, very unlike the mess that is the Ghost Hunt translation. I think a good way to sneak the present tense in is, like in the passage, if you describe something that is still happening, or an opinion that still stands, on the background of the past events that are now over and done with. Kind of like saying "we went to the coffee shop and sat down at a table, but I didn't get anything" and then giving your overarching opinion as in "I absolutely hate Caribou coffee. It makes my stomach hurt and overall I prefer the Starbucks medium roast." This implies that you're still alive and still hate that particular coffee, and it doesn't sound too weird either; also, the reader is more connected to the narrator and it cements that narrator as an active character in the story.

So then I guess the closest English can get to the Japanese tense shifts is if the narrator plays an active role in the story? It's just a cultural thing in that case; it probably doesn't sound as weird in the original Japanese as it does when translated.

Eh, shoujo doesn't /have/ to be romance--it has to kind of focus on the main character's emotional growth and strengthening interpersonal relationships, usually. Usually said relationships are romantic, but there are exceptions. Mai definitely achieves some emotional growth, and becomes more confident with her supernatural abilities and her problem-solving skills throughout the story. Also, she finds a true family with the ghost hunters, which is 'aww' because she's orphaned... It's unlike most shoujo though, because Naru himself doesn't achieve much growth. He is slowly revealed to be nicer and more empathetic than he seemed at first yeah, but that's because Mai's finding out more about him, which implies that he's always been like that. Usually in shoujo, both parties have to change a little bit to make a relationship work. Perhaps Ono couldn't think of a way to change Naru (although he's perfect the way he is. <-- seeee, it's because of fans like me that she avoided writing the hookup)
I didn't finish reading the novels because I couldn't find translations past the fourth book or so so I didn't get to Naru vs. Gene, but I heard about it. I wish I could say more about it, but.

Are the two FMA versions the same studio but different director?
So I just have to describe the differences I see for each one? Here goes!

Image 1: Well like you said they would, it has the same setting but the most noticeable thing that jumps out right away is the color; the colors on the bottom are more bold and bright, with less shading on it--but the coloring job is sharper. The facial expressions are next...the one on top has everyone looking pained or concentrated, like Ed looks in pain in the top one, whereas in the bottom one he doesn't even look like a person. He looks more annoyed, I guess (in addition there's the fact that in the top his arm is sort of stretched out rather than lying still, the former would imply pain or discomfort as well). Also, Winry (that's Winry, right?) looks like she's concentrating in the top panel, but she just looks curious in the bottom one. Same with the midget she-male. And in the bottom one there's a couch.

Image 2: This must be Roy Mustang! Oddly enough, I noticed the background first this time; in the top panel there's pine trees, implying that he's outdoors (maybe Sotoba?). In the bottom, it would look like bare pine trees at first glance but the unnatural shapes say 'factory'. Also the lighting on the top gives him a smooth golden glow, which would also support the outdoors idea. The bottom has a black needle staring him in the eye and his face and neck are grimy as well (factories are often dirty). The angles are sharper in the top panel too, most notably dat nose and dat hair.

Before I go on, I'm guessing that the bottom panel in Image 1 and the top panel in Image 2 are both from Brotherhood? You said it was more for kids, and the art style is more simple and cartoony which would make sense. The details are also more PG, like Roy's face being clean.

Image 3: Speaking of PG, the bottom panel is. It looks like a guy wearing a Halloween costume, but the top one really means business. Like with the last two, one panel has brighter, more bold and contrasting colors and shading (obviously the bottom) and the top is more darkly shaded and realistic looking. The face is also more menacing, like the shadow between the eyes to illustrate the frown is pure creepy gold. It also doesn't have a background so we can focus on his face making it more dramatic, but the bottom has some wall behind him, which takes the focus off of him and just making it part of the setting.

Image 4: This one is harder to decide which one is the Brotherhood but I'm guessing it's the top one because of those same round looking eyes that Winry had. The colors are brighter in the bottom, but the face shows more, like, emotional anguish, and the top one just looks kind of scared. The bottom one can be scared too, but mixed in with confusion, dread, disgust, surprise, etc. Also the setting is evidently different because the top one has a mountain in the back, and the bottom looks like she's in a city. Her hair is blowing in the top one, which also implies the great outdoors.

I looked through the whole folder, and saw similar stuff to what I already talked about, like more easy to understand facial expressions--which would go with the idea that FMA B is for kids, because they can't read into that as much--and less bold colors and such. Another thing I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been looking for differences (I'm somewhat biased already and I haven't even seen it yet) is weapons. In the more serious looking frames, the blonde woman who's not Winry is firing her weapon, rather than just holding it up. I don't know if this is significant, because maybe she just fired it a second later than the screencap. And in one panel, one of the versions of her isn't holding a gun at all.

That's all I can think about right now to say about it... so what are the results of the experiment?

Escaflowne is easier to talk about it as I've seen both versions. I really preferred the series, but liked the movie too, but my brother loves the movie and literally cannot stand the series. I thought the movie undoubtedly had better art, but I wasn't a fan of the way they changed the characters up. I prefer Hitomi as an energetic, upbeat girl, and making Millerna an action girl doesn't work imo. I saw the movie before I saw the series (my aforementioned brother told me to watch the movie and by no means watch the series, so I did both) so I think maybe if I saw the series first, I'd like the movie even less. Millerna was my favorite character, probably, because she's a good rebellious princess without being a tomboy (though I think she used to be?) and is rebellious by seeking out knowledge rather than combat skills. That's pretty unique! I also really enjoyed Dilandau, and the movie didn't really feature him, so that's also a minus.
It's still good, though, to have people with opposing tastes be able to enjoy the same series, albeit opposing interpretations of it. I don't know if the characters' personalities remain the same, but I imagine it's like reading for want of a nail fanfiction where the characters go in different directions.

If you look up 'dick' in the dictionary, you'd find a picture of Seishin! He's a bitch in sheep's clothing. He's one of those that isn't outwardly a jerk and seems gentle, but the jerk actions accumulate and then you see the full Jerk. I wonder if young Seishin was like Kaori? Then he and Toshio kind of had their own Megumi/Kaori relationshiop going on.
Well, Seishin doesn't need a lot to be protected from. The scariest thing he's facing right now would probably be lack of sleep from staying up late writing.

I'll probably go ahead and put up a full linguistic post on the narrative stuff, since the more I think about it, the more I'm dissatisfied with how much is lost in translation, even if I think it's the best current option.

Yup, FMA1 (2003) and Brotherhood (2009) were both made by Bones studio, same sound director amongst others, and many of the same voice actors. However, the fact that Brotherhood's director had barely directed more than a few opening themes and filler episodes really hurt things. This is obviously just my take, but I got the impression they threw an inexperienced nobody director at it because there was never any intent to put time, effort and most importantly funds into really making the work as an anime that makes the most of its medium change and really shines, but as a quick cash-in on a series that, after the 2003 anime, was still a cash cow. The series is so slipshod, and to me at least, the attempt to put emotion or care into character expressions or scenes was hollow.

Which is why I'm surprised you thought Roy on the bottom was from 2003---his stare seems so much more intense in the top one, but I guess that's just me. I get that in the bottom one he's meant to look collected, but he looks disinterested to me (and his neck would have to be strained or broken at that angle).

Most people pick which one they think is "better" but there's no real quantitative result since descriptions were qualitative from you (which is fine!). As a debriefing:

1. Exact same scene--Ed is tense because when his automail is connected it's very painful. It's played for laughs and is a minor annoyance in Brotherhood, and is a serious pain that Ed deals with a couple of times in 2003. What really thows me about that is how the characters in the bottom one really just look taped onto the background like they're on top of a sponge painting--like, it seems to me that Winry's hip should be into the wall given her angle and the wall and the table there.

2. The top is 2003, bottom is Brotherhood, actually. Both scenes only exist in their own respective canons, but finding a serious shot of Roy looking intense that was at the same angle required that, since both do wildly different things in the series. Manga Roy is more of a shounen hero type whose great scenes are mostly action; Brotherhood Roy is more of a joke character with two cool action scenes; 2003 Roy is more of a mastermind character than an action hero, so his dramatic, intense, or cool scenes are usually a different flavor.

3. Top one's 2003, bottom's Brotherhood. You definitely saw a mood difference. Brotherhood didn't really focus on his shield form as intimidating or menacing, so admittedly I was kind of in a spot for a completely fair shot. I can only think making the opponent seem intense and characterized is better, but it was kind of a rushed, forgettable little arc in Brotherhood (so rushed it created a near-plot-hole level of inconsistency that the manga didn't have).

4. Both of these are shots from a really great scene. When this character just lost her religion and reason for living and was just told by the guy responsible whom she told off (who she knows has lost an arm and a leg) to just get up and walk, find herself a new reason and way of living, because she has two perfectly good legs. He offered her no sympathy or encouragement. In the manga, she just kind of gets better and lives a happy life thankful for Ed's harsh but necessary actions, but in the anime it kicks off a very moving character arc (to be fair, she's also an important character in the anime--in the manga, she's a complete side character who only even showed up again in the manga because of her anime popularity; I'm not going to be that harsh on them for not giving an entire arc to a throwaway).

The weapons thing is more of a fluke; when Gun Chick fires the shots off in Brotherhood (duller colored ones) there's not really much of a visual pow, but she does fire them both several times. As someone who's shot firearms, I appreciate that she is at least in a position to aim one, and the other would be more like cover/scatter fire, whereas in the second, she's doing that impossible "shooting both aiming with neither" thing but that's fictional gunplay for you. I wouldn't be able to sit through Trigun if that kind of thing actually killed me. She's holding her gun in the other shot too, it's just not in-frame. Brotherhood is, for all its failings, very action oriented; in aiming for kids, it didn't tone down the violence or such, they just simplified a lot of things. Japan's a lot less up in arms about violence in kids' TV.

Wow, someone who liked the movie and hated the series! It's like your brother's a unicorn! I liked Hitomi quite a bit in both versions, but I agree I prefer her up beat and spunky. And Dilandau is the best villain, but can you really do him justice in just one movie?

As for the characters being the same or not in the two series, or whether it's situational differences, that's a tough one. I mean, I'm tempted to write off some differences as just plain writing flaws--the Elrics, in both canons, are very anti-killing. In the '03 anime, Ed is disturbed any time anyone dies sometimes having flashbacks, gets his hands bloody (by accident, but the enemy specifically wanted to make Ed kill him so he wouldn't hesitate to kill later) and is traumatized by it, sometimes with flashbacks. He makes graves for the dead out of respect despite being a very ardent atheist. In Brotherhood, he professes being very anti-kill, but is never actually bothered by any of the deaths he is exposed to, doesn't even do more than make a kinda frumpy face when an enemy goes into the cruel details of how he killed Ed's friend, and watches enemies die, falling into comedic arguing 15 minutes after. Is there a difference there even outside their situations? Yes. But the difference is in how seriously they stick by it, and it's paradoxical to state that manga Ed is actually less "anti-kill" given he's the one who consistently refuses to kill, always thinks it's wrong, and manages to stand by that... as does '03 Ed if you only count killing with intent to kill, but he at least tells HIMSELF he is okay with it from then on--a difference of circumstance to be sure; Brotherhood Ed never has to kill because someone else always finishes off the big bads for him to his hands stay clean. In the '03 anime, Greed tricks Ed into killing him specifically to make sure Ed, whom he noted was not making attempts at fatal blows during their first fight, is primed to kill from now on.

In this Megumi/Kaori-like relationship the Waka-combi could have, I'd almost wonder if Seishin wasn't more the Megumi... He did say he just kind of ended up stuck in Toshio's groups as a kid and Megumi just ends up stuck with Kaori walking with her to school because they're neighbors.

I think the translation is good as you're doing it so far, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything that's hindering my comprehension of it, but I'm not the one translating it so maybe there's just stuff I'm not aware of (like I totally wouldn't have thought of the tense changes). I read the full post/essay and I was gonna comment about that on the linguistic post page! I like how you're doing it now, sticking to a consistent tense and explaining, like, the narrative information for instance. This way, it's easily readable, and the reader also has an option of getting background information on the novel's format if they're curious about it like I am.

Bones studio has a very good reputation, doesn't it? Hm, I wonder if there was an issue among the studio about making an adaptation that is so different from the first one. Like if some people didn't like the idea of changing the theme and preferred the old one, and just refused to work on it? Well, like you said though, a lot of the existing fans really liked Brotherhood, so it's a matter of how you interpret it whether it failed as an adaptation or not. Maybe it succeeded as what they aimed it to be: a kids' show. I haven't watched it myself, but then again even the really bad shows that most otakus agree on their crappiness have a fanbase, so I'm just thinking that as with all anime--hell, media in general--it's up to interpretation.

I would have thought that in the 2003 anime which is supposed to be a lot more mature than Brotherhood, the expressions would be somewhat more subtle than in the latter. That's cause for kids' shows, which is what Brotherhood is supposed to be, character expressions are often exaggerated, and this is shown in simpler anime too where they go chibi and go crouch in a corner (I really don't like that kind of animation because it seems lazy and over dramatic). I guess that's why I thought that Bottom Roy was 2003, because he seems collected. According to my Kids' Show Expression Theory (KSET for short) his expression would have to be openly angry or some other obvious emotion; but I had to think a little about what he might be thinking about so I thought if it's more complicated, it's 2003. That's my reasoning anyway~ but they /are/ essentially the same characters and studio, so they're bound to look similar sometimes! Also the bottom one looked dirty, so I thought the top one had censored that by cleaning his face up.

As for violence censorships, I don't have a lot to say about stylistic choices or about preserving the original format (definitely do this as much as possible though) but I think that anime in particular should be careful about showing too much violence in their kids shows. In anime, a lot of the time injuries are understated, or shown differently; in live action you can see blood or something but it's a lot more clean in anime. To illustrate an example, a common scene in anime would be: 'A girl is walking past a group of boys. They say something unwelcome like "eww it's Megumi" or something. Megumi proceeds to turn around and kick them all against the wall, while shouting "die, morons!"' And this is portrayed so that she did the right thing and is now characterized as an independent and fiery woman. Who doesn't want to be an independent and fiery woman? What I'm trying to get at is, kids could see this violence not being taken seriously enough and think that it's perfectly okay to do that too. Never mind that you can actually break bones by kicking someone against a wall, or that if someone actually does that there'll be more, negative consequences than stares of admiration and awe. So like I just think it's easier to play violence for laughs in anime and they should be careful about that in shows aimed for children.

Rather than a unicorn, my brother would probably prefer being called a Pegasus or something because he's a huge hipster. I don't think that even the whole series was enough to do Dilandau justice! In the movie he was just this weird soldier with a woman's voice, but he is so much more than that. His voice, too! I liked the childlike series voice more, I think it really captured his character and made him even more creepy. He's definitely the highlight of Escaflowne for me, I usually prefer the villains. >:U

I'd say the difference between the two anti-killing Elrics is pretty significant; here the focus can be shifted from the morals, to their ability to stick by them. In 2003, it sounds like the lesson that comes from that is that despite your best intentions, you can't always keep the promises you make to yourself, and even your values aren't held sacred and can grow weaker with time and circumstance--which would fit in with the theme for the 2003 anime. I haven't watched Brotherhood, but I'm already kinda developing a grudge towards it; if Ed is anti-killing, then he would be against killing by /anyone/ not just himself. So if someone does the killing for him, that should technically not be okay either!

Perhaps Seishin is like an introverted Megumi--his feelings aren't as black and white as hers, and he can't really express himself as, um, clearly as she can. And Toshio is Kaori with a backbone and stubble. They're both plucky in their own way! Hn, if I think about it I think that from the beginning it's hinted that Kaori isn't just a shy girl; she does pursue relentlessly with her attempts at friendship after all, despite the other girl's blatant rejections. If she was really weak-willed she would've given up, but she didn't--and she doesn't later, either.

I'd never heard of any in-studio drama at Bones studio. As far as I know, the wank was entirely fandom based, though I think the Brotherhood staff made some severe PR blunders in regard to the former series. That said, you're mostly hearing about Brotherhood from me, and I absolutely hate the series; for all I know you'd actually love it.

Maybe I give kids too much credit but I think people actually have a better sense for what's acceptable in society and fiction than that. I think as quick and cute and clean as cartoon or TV violence looks, it's surprisingly different to feel the weight of another person in making contact with them.

I'm not sure slapstick violence would even qualify as humor to adults. I don't seem very fond of the characters who are made out to be "strong and independent" by making them bitchy, but looking back at series I saw when younger, I liked characters like that. Lina Inverse from Slayers, Asuka from Eva, Haruko from FLCL, Ryoko from Tenchi Muyo, half the cast of Ranma 1/2, Hamel from Violinist of Hameln... Flash forward to more modern series and I hate Winry for most of FMA, Haruhi from Suzumiya Haruhi, Yozora from Haganai, Shanna from Shakugan no Shanna, Megumi in Shiki, etc.

Now I'm picturing Ozaki in pigtails and Kaori with stubble. That's pleasant.

I read a great little comic once where Ozaki ended up as the school physician at Kaori's new school and they had a run in, feeling both disturbed and comforted at each other's existence as someone else who knew Sotoba, confirming that time was real, while they otherwise lived as if it never existed. It really captured Kaori's unique kind of strength.

In any case, FMA (both versions) are anime classics, so I have to get to watching them eventually. Since your bias has rubbed off on me, I'll start in chronological order with the 2003. (I know I already said I'd start but I really will this time!)
Well the fandom can also afford to be more vocal with their discontent. If someone on the studio expressed distaste, they could be kicked off like 'oh you don't like it? Start job-hunting.'

I just mean that cartoon violence will turn it into something comic and positive, especially to kids who haven't been exposed to violence. If they see it played for laughs, they might think it would be funny to do that in real life...and then actually hurt someone. If they took it a little more seriously (and they do, just not in cartoons) then maybe that would cement the idea that violence is bad into their heads. Yeah...I don't have a lot of experience with kids, they kind of seem irrational and scary. But that's to be expected from a person with one older sibling and zero prior exposure to kids. Still, the kids of today will be making the decisions of tomorrow, and all that (aw, I'm starting to talk like an old lady now!)

I can't stand watching tsundere anime. I never really watched it as a kid so I can't speak for that, but right now, I don't know, maybe I just really like realistic scenarios better. There's a blog post somewhere about how real-life tsunderes would be nothing like they're romanticized to be, and they're right, like who would want to be put down all the time and have their feelings played with? And scenarios where shy guys meet those types of girls and proceed to have a fun life aren't realistic because it would take a lot of confidence not to let their derogatory comments blow holes in your self esteem. And that would seem counter-intuitive if the story was about the person growth of the shy male protagonist...if he's already that confident, what has he got to grow in? (lots, but that would be an entirely different plot already)

I wonder if there's genderbending fanart of Shiki characters out there somewhere. With Kaori as a spunky child and Toshio as a proactive nurse who constantly needs her upper lip waxed.

Was the comic in Japanese? That'd be cool to read! Toshio and Kaori never make contact (in the anime at least) but their interactions would be interesting. Everyone has their own kind of strength in my opinion. I think that's what makes a well-written character, not having different likes, dislikes, or appearance, but being strong to varying degrees in their own ways.

I'd recommend saving the best for last, myself, but if you're going for 2003, I'm slowly working on my own subtitles for the series since I'm not happy with Funimation's. If you get the raws, the times subbed files should fit with them. I also include director's notes and such in the OP/EDs. I'm only up to episode 10--translating Shiki kind of distracted me.

To be fair, I say I think kids can't tell the difference, but I was actually a pretty violent kid. Maybe I'm a terrible example... But I like to think I'm just a bad person, rather than humans really being that desensitized by media.

I've only liked a few tsunderes; one is Tohsaka Rin, from Fate/Stay Night, and a big part of her charm for me is that I bloody hate the main character, her love interest. Her snapping at him doesn't seem bitchy so much as it sounds like someone finally telling the little putz off like he needs. Otherwise, it's pretty rare for me to like someone for their tsundere traits; I usually tend to like them in spite of the tsun. I've enjoyed some people's animosity towards me immensely, but that's a different feeling from finding them moe or wanting them. I do like the tsunderes who express their love in backwards ways ("Love means accepting your flaws, but telling you all about them."), but not the ones who deny their feelings or get bossy as some kind of means to monopolize the target without having to put their own feelings out there. It's a delicate balance in what gets me to like a tsundere. I guess the deciding factor would be "How would they answer the question of whether or not they liked their target?" If it's "NO!! BAKA!" (and the real answer is yes) definitely not. If it's "Well, of course I do." then I'll probably be smitten with them. People who love people while recognizing and calling them on their flaws are the best. Some people even love people for their flaws. Girls who are dedicated to an unworthy love interest can be redeemable with a good dose of that. It's kind of like loving moe girls for their moe flaws, like doji-kos or pettankos or Seishins.

I think I've seen some genderswapped Ozaki and Seishin. But it's never going to top the idea of Toshio as a nurse with a perpetual stache. I think you've won the internet with that.

I'll have to look for the comic when I'm at home; it's on Pixiv. It is in Japanese, but I just summarized the plot for you.

I wouldn't know where to get raws, but I could look! I like your translations, so I could give them a shot. I actually watched like 5 episodes of Brotherhood before, but it was so long ago that I don't even remember what it was about, so I'd have to rewatch it. I just kinda...stopped watching so I guess the me of a couple years ago wasn't that interested. In that case, though, I'll give Brotherhood a crack first. Is it longer than 2003?

There's a quote that goes like "Your harshest critic is yourself" and I think it's really accurate; don't label yourself as a bad person, because you're surely a lot better than you think you are. I was a really sheltered kinda kid. Everyone thought I would turn out rebellious, and they were partly right because I was one of THOSE KIDS that went through an emo phase...yeah, I think the years that I was in middle school were the most stressful years of my parents' lives.

Oh, I liked Rin too! She was an acceptable degree of tsundere, which at least kinda ties in with my standards of the situation having to be realistic. It's not uncommon for girls (and guys) to hide their feelings from others or from themselves, or put up a front because they think their real self is embarrassing. Or to have a short temper. What really ticks me off are the characters with ungodly degrees of anger that are played for laughs so much it's annoying--put simply, the "NO! BAKA!" girls. Fate/Stay Night could be improved immensely if the main character wasn't Shirou...I prefer Fate/Zero, because of the art and because Kiritsugu is awesome.
Yeah though, I think that a healthy relationship does need a dose of tsun in it. Both parties need to not put up with the others' crap, and it's important to put their feelings out there (especially irl because people aren't as perceptive as they are shown to be in media). Tsunderes are kind of a paradox in this sense because they don't hesitate to speak their mind and call people out, but they deny their true feelings almost to the point that they're misinterpreted completely.
The same principle also applies to Kaori if you think about it; even if she's usually nice and doormat-like, she has the little bit of tsun that comes out sometimes and improves the situation. Everyone has it to a varying degree.

Now I have a great idea for a lil comic about Valentine's Day at the Ozaki clinic. Will the perpetually prickly (literally so) nurse Toshiko Ozaki find love?

A summary isn't the same as reading it! But I will look at it for the art *hipster glance*

Brotherhood is 64 (+3~ OAVs) whereas 2003 is 51 (+1 movie). Both have some gag OAVs too that aren't really canon or anything, and some omakes. If you do get raws of 2003, let me know and I'll link you to the subs I do have done.

Kiritsugu and Kirei were excellent. That dynamic between Kiritsugu and Saber without a word between each other, and Iris managing the in between so well was really interesting. I hated Illya so I expected not to have any love for Iris, and I don't tend to like the pure domesticated nice girls whose only role is support, but it's hard to hate her even if I don't love her the way I do most Type Moon heroines.

Waver was the requisite tsundere in Zero.

Little brothers are born to annoy their sisters and, well, Natsuno was too good for Megumi, the insensitive cad! I don't know if I'd call Kaori tsun or just reasonably annoyed. If it's the same thing, then yeah, everyone's a little bit tsun sometimes... short of the Iris types.

Kaori argues with Natsuno a bit in the novels, too. It's nice to see her get a little piece of her mind out at him for the Megumi treatment, even if I'm entirely on his side on that matter. Kaori manages that doormat/bitch balance well, avoiding being either. She's not as mature or sharp as Ritsuko is for example, she's definitely got her flaws, I can see not liking her, which makes her well rounded. As much as I love Ritsuko, I can't imagine anyone not liking her for any good reason, which makes me wonder if she's a little too perfect...

I started watching Brotherhood! I just finished episode 6 and I don't know if that's far enough to have a solid opinion of whether it sucks or not. One thing I can say is the scene where Ed and Al are going back to their hometown by train and then suddenly they see the former state alchemist, and then he just happens to have been working on the Philosopher's Stone, and he just happens to have an imperfect version of it with him? Come on! That's too much coincidence. Eh, I'll keep watching and once I'm done with it eventually I'll go hunting for some 2003 raws.

I didn't really like Kirei until around the middle when he started stirring things up and stabbing Tokiomi and little things like that. Kiritsugu reminds me of Ozaki so much that even though he's clean-shaven, in my mind I always imagine him as having perma stubble. And he had some of the best fights ever!
Iris was such a good character. Her real age was, like, 14 or something? And yet she still had a kid. Which was kind of weird, but I liked her Kaori-like inner strength where she's stern and brave at the right moments like at the beginning where she convinces Kiritsugu that he can hold his child. And after being trapped in a castle all her life, her excitement at being outside was adorable; and if she was fazed, she didn't show it at all. She was one of my absolute favorite characters, now that I think about it.

I didn't like Waver. I sympathized with him at the beginning because I like characters that show their skill despite not having "the right" ancestry but his attitude was just...annoying somehow. I don't know if it was the tsun, I just didn't like him.

Natsuno deserves getting tsun'd at sometimes! As much as I kinda dislike his attitude, Megumi's advances were just creepy and if Kaori had known that Megumi actually stalked his house, maybe she wouldn't have insisted on giving him the card. Or maybe she knew anyway? People always seem nicer when they're far away (or dead, I guess). It's easy to forget Megumi's flaws when she's, uh, gone.

A good reason not to like Ritsuko is cause she's kind of boring. The perfect nurse who tragically gets attacked and then hangs out in a shed for the rest of the show. However, it depends on what one's personal morals are, but the viewer's supposed to gain a lot of respect for her for being the only Shiki who refuses to kill. It's especially significant because she's a nurse and knows that once someone's dead, they stay dead and even if they're moving around, they are still dead and should be treated as such. Therefore, she sees herself as dead and dead people don't eat or change out of their burial robes, so she does neither. Go Ritsuko! But that kind of self control could be hard to relate to for some people.

You'll probably like the 2003 take on Marcoh that a lot better, then. It relies considerably less in general on absurd coincidences. I'm not biasing you at all here, no siree....

Kirei doesn't do much until mid-way through when he gets interested in Tokiomi, but his thoughts when he curb-stomped Maya and Iris were when I first really god interested in him. But I did the novel before the anime, and as expected, the introspection is my favorite part. In the anime, without as much of that, he's boring early on. I'd probably not care for Kiritsugu either if I went with the anime first. I'm just not big on action most of the time. But then, who could be bored with him, for Kiritsugu does have Ozaki stubble!

I dunno if you can dislike Ritsuko for being boring though, can you? Maybe you won't be interested in her, you might not think she's well written, but I can't think of why anyone would dislike her, which sets off my alarms for a too perfect character. Obviously, as I've said, I really love Ritsuko, she's one of my favorites, she IS interesting to me, I think she's involved in a lot of interesting conflicts and even better is not just a victim of those. She tries to find out what's going on, she just fails. She doesn't just wait for things to happen to her, but her failure isn't due to any flaws of her own; it's because people who have access to the information she needs aren't sharing (Ozaki-senseeeeei....). It's because she trusts those people if there is something grave to tell her (Ozaki-senseeeeeeei....). I don't even think she's naive in trusting them; she does push and prod a reasonable amount, for how much evidence she has. I think she acts admirably, reasonably, realistically. But while I admire that, I don't see how anyone couldn't. She's perfect, besides the fact that the story doesn't curb to her whims. It'd be Mary Sue-ish if the setting itself catered more to showing off her perfection, rather than using her perfection to underscore how hopeless the situation is. There was no reasonably expect-able action she could have taken for a better result. This shows us how thoroughly the noose is around Sotoba's neck and how thorough the Shiki team's been.

Let's compare this to characters who stories go out of their way to establish as super awesome good at something, beyond a simple standard reasonable ability, only for it not to be particularly plot relevant at any point. If Ritsuko were randomly established as some kind of prodigy nurse or detective or whatnot and still failed, it wouldn't had made the Shiki seem any more capable.

Compare to, say, Al, of FMA BH: is there any reason at all to dislike him? At worst, he's boringly polite, but he's not generally passive or inactive or unable to think for himself. He's a bit naive but not dense by any means and quite sharp. And short of one single plot arc with Barry the Chopper, nothing bad ever happens to him or anyone else as a consequence of any of his mistakes. Add to the fact that we're shown he's a super badass fighter and God Tier Alchemist, and yet those skills are rarely plot relevant. His in-series win record against enemies is atrocious, he's taken hostage/prisoner more than the child hood friend/love interest heroine. His alchemy is apparently amazing, but that's never relevant or important; every single alchemist relevant to the story is equal to or better than him. When he does win, he never has to dirty his hands; he squarely 'defeats' enemies who someone else suddenly kills for him so he's the winner but never has to deal with the ethics of winning against people trying to kill you--which is a major theme of the series. He's a character it's hard for me to empathize with in the manga because he's "awesome" because they tell me he is, but then almost never so in practice. It makes him boring instead of sympathetic like Ritsuko, at least to me. I don't dislike him the way I dislike Sunako; I'm just bored with him, or find him badly written at times. Sunako is well written, I like her as a character, a written literary device I just don't like her on a personal-character level. I like Ritsuko on both levels.

But the only difference is that Ritsuko isn't set up to be amazing like Al. She's not flawed besides by normalcy. So I have a hard time reconciling her being in my top 3 Shiki characters while Al probably doesn't even make my top 10 for the FMA Manga. I know I'm allowed to be subjective in which characters I like, but it still feels off, like maybe Ritsuko's cute and that's tipping the scales or something...

I fully intend to take a scientific and objective approach to watching Brotherhood. Just my own impression, without...outside influences.../pointed glance/

Urk, I knew that Fate/Zero had a novel, but I never bothered to read it. What kind of a fan am I!? It's been a while since I watched it for the first time--well, not that long I guess since I started at the end of August or something like that--but I didn't expect it to be that good so I kind of half-watched it at first, but in the first 40 minute episode, there was a long chunk where Tokiomi and Kirei Sr. talk to Kirei about his role in the Holy Grail War. I thought that was a lot of monologue, but I also thought that Kirei was going to become the main character. As much as I liked Kirei and Gilgamesh, I thought they could have had a better relationship. After a lifetime of being oppressed into the expectations of being a priest, are a few talks with Gilgamesh really enough to get Kirei to reveal his game face? And before I learned Kiritsugu's name, I actually dubbed him 'Black Ozaki' (now I'm imagining Ozaki as, like, African American). Hang on...Black Ozaki, and a depressed priest who has expectations forced on him...is this like the Ozaki and Seishin relationship, but on drugs? Kiritsugu may have the stubble down, but his chin is still too round for getting down to business!

There's the possibility that Ritsuko's there to be relatable for the reader, which doesn't necessarily mean that she has to be well written. Characters that are meant to be like everyday characters are usually pulled off better if they don't have really unique traits. Ritsuko's actions really are logical and everything; if I was a nurse in Sotoba, the best course of action I could probably take would be the same as Ritsuko does. It can even be said that she does what everyone in Sotoba should have done...but they were too late. She could've made a difference if she moved earlier--actually, if the whole village thought to look past their own noses and moved earlier, they could've made a difference, but a big theme of the story is how dysfunctional the village really is so that wouldn't happen. I think I saw a review of Shiki that called her too 'timid' or something for not telling Ozaki about seeing Nao in the woods. Like okay, but she doesn't know what the viewer knows...telling your boss that you saw a dead person walking around is a good way to get yourself fired, especially in a realistic type of setting like Sotoba.

Yeah, I hate informed abilities too. I haven't gotten too far into Brotherhood yet to really judge how Al will turn out, but so far I think he's totally bland and I can see him continuing to be bland throughout the series. Another good thing about Ritsuko is that you really get to know her through her actions, so instead of Infodump-sensei or someone having to explain that she's a good, normal nurse, you kind of just get her whole personality through her interactions with the other nurses and other patients, although that's not shown as much.

Maybe having to think to find a flaw in Ritsuko is a mark of a good character. Sometimes to make characters more believable and realistic, authors exaggerate their flaws so much that a specific flaw stands out right in the viewer's face, although there might be more flaws besides that one. That's a lot like real life; if you don't really know a person, their flaws don't just jump out. And that's what Ritsuko is like to the reader; she's not a heavy monologuer like Ozaki or, God forbid, Seishin, so we never really get to know her besides a superficial impression based on her interactions. Sadly, looks do make a big impression. Buuut they aren't the final decision. For instance, I personally think that Natsuno is the hottest guy in Shiki (after Atsushi, unnnf) but I still dislike him. I bet he wouldn't have as many fangirls if he wasn't so bishonen and fashion forward!

If nothing else, let's at least establish the fact that Ritsuko's Mountain Pass is a definite flaw.

Edited 2014-02-23 05:19 (UTC)

All I remember from the first episode is people walking ridiculous circles around Kirei. I was already familiar with the Grail War from the F/SN VN too (which you might like even if you didn't care for the anime) so the info dump was a real drag.

As someone who has a print-out of the laws of physics and internal contradictions present in the mere ideal of ghosts prepared for whenever I have to deal with people at work trying to believe in such claptrap, I can understand Ritsuko not saying anything. I kind of suspect that if Ozaki hadn't come to the conclusion himself, he'd be just as angry and insufferable of an anti-mystic as I am. USA is a common law nation, each time we let something supernatural be the answer in an investigation or a court of law we're doing a grave disservice to the future. Each time a client tells me their room is haunted or their kid cries and refuses to go to bed because of it, it's even worse than obstructing justice, it's taking up my free time to deal with their bullshit.

Ah ha. Her hair. Her hair is her flaw.

I don't think she's badly written, and I love her! But can't those justifications for a flawless character give anyone a pass? Ritsuko's not a main who monologues at length but she's hardly a bit character.

Is there a place where you can see the VN? I didn't dislike the anime; I watched it after Fate/Zero so I guess I had my standards kind of high. But I really liked the characters, they were a big plus in contrast to F/Z, which is mostly plot, action, and psychological mind-screw. I'm referring to the first 15 or so episodes though when I make that generalization; I still haven't actually finished Fate/Stay Night. It's kind of an ongoing thing, along with like five other shows.

So when I watched the infodump scene, I sort of zoned out too, but unlike you I still didn't know what the Grail War really was and just kinda figured it out along the way. And I managed just fine, which proves that the Kirei Circle scene could be cut out entirely. Maybe it's there to prove to the viewers that Tokiomi exists, because tbh he is practically nonexistent after that.

I'm curious as to what kind of a job you have as to get clients that complain about ghosts!? Yeah, I feel your pain, though...one of my past friends used to say that she could see ghosts. One time during a slumber party at my house, we were watching TV when she suddenly went pale and pointed to a corner and whispered, "Your home is plagued by spirits!" Just as I was getting ready to kick her out, she pulled out a goddamn Ouija board out of her bag and started communicating with the ghost. After we suffered through that, she got 'possessed' by the ghost and started talking about what her past life was like 100 years ago. And this came totally out of nowhere, she seemed totally normal until these quirks started showing themselves...I don't talk to her anymore! But I can't imagine dealing with that on a daily basis.

Ozaki is just so down-to-earth that it would be impossible for Ritsuko to imagine him taking her Nao ghost story seriously. It must've seemed really freaky for Seishin to see him becoming so sure that vampires would attack the clinic.

Maybe she should get a weave?

There are some characters that you just can't help liking! If that was Ono's intention, maybe Ritsuko was there to be sympathetic, just like Masao's there for the reader to hate. Nobody can help not liking Masao.

You can either download the game and play it yourself (with the voice patch, you're looking at I think about 5GB?) or check out the playthrough on Youtube. If you go to Xerblade's channel you can pick which route you follow. It was meant to be read Fate (Saber), Unlimited Blade Works (Rin), Heaven's Feel (Sakura). You normally can't go to the next until you finish the first. I downloaded a completed save and played in reverse order just due to being contrary and followed along just fine, though. Due to Youtube's policies, the smut scenes are not uploaded. While it's a relief to miss them, they're also hilarious and as you're a completionist, you'll probably want to see it all.

That friend sounds more than insufferable... I work more than one job, but the one the ghost print out is for is the DV shelter. I get disgusted at how many clients come in there believing in ghosts, believing the shelter is haunted, trying to make up a haunted history for the place when the building is only 15 years old. I thought they were just using it as an excuse to stay up late often. Eeeek, ghosts, too scared to sleep, eek. The last straw was when some kid came into my office crying about being afraid to use his bathroom because of ghosts; I'm terrible with children, so I drug his mom in to take care of it, and she refused to just man up and say there are no such things as ghosts because SHE believed in them. I started writing on the dry erase board, explaining physics, photons, matter, energy, e=mc^2, everything to explain how the laws of nature don't work that way, and anything interacting with the physical universe to produce visions, sounds, tactile sensations, etc. have specific, definable properties, in an angry fit wanting mom to do her damned job and calm her kid down.

....In the mean time, the kid, 8 years old, way too old, pissed on my floor while sobbing because he held it in too long.

The next day I prepared a simple one page print out explaining in simple terms how ghosts can't exist, or at the very least can't manifest in the ways people are claiming. If you want to claim they exist on some spiritual level fine, but anything visible still has to reflect protons, anything making noise has to cause vibrations. They may break the laws of physics themselves somehow, exist on another plane, whatever you need to tell yourself for spiritual reasons, but the rest of the world they would have to influence still operates by them, including you, so there's nothing to fear.

I do that about 30~ hours a week, sometimes a full 40. I also do dojo stuff where they believe in unscientific things like chi, but I don't own the place, and that kind of mystic claptrap sells. My usual full time always 40 hour a week job involves investigating abuse of the old or retarded, including in hospitals, nursing homes, etc. Thankfully most investigative and court matters aren't prone to humoring supernatural answers, but I have had to sit and grind my teeth very, very, very hard to keep from continuing to argue with superstitious medicinal/diet claptrap. Telling women in your office they're wasting their time on a diet they feel like martyrs for suffering on tends not to go over well. Gaaah, we're a branch of the Health Department, can't you read a damned scientific study on some health craze...?! We can have any journal or book brought to us from anywhere in the US, we practically have State Alchemist Library style access, we can assign a secretary to go scrounge up studies for us, you have no excuse for not reading up on this if it's important enough to take action on!

The point is, I'm not even a professional scientist like medical professionals are, and I get this pissed at bad science and supernatural answers. I can definitely imagine how one might expect Ozaki to respond to such things and hold off on bringing them up in his presence, especially as they notice he's already on edge looking for a "real" answer. All the more if one is also a medical professional trained in the scientific method and evidence based medicine.

I dunno. I kinda like Masao sometimes... I think sometimes because they make him so detestable. Likewise, I often hate characters a work tries too hard to make me like--often the pure, but boring, vapid love interests, but also often the too good to be true perfectly moral, somehow always ultimately heroes/heroines who just happen to be dense enough to never have to make a decision on the many love interests they accidentally acquire, because that would hurt someone and make them less perfect. I think a lot of people have such a negative reaction to a work trying too hard to tell you to like someone. So I still wonder why flawless, utterly sympathetic and admirable Ricchan doesn't trigger the same response from me.

Thanks for the link! I'm a hands-on person so I'll try looking at some places to download it from to play it. I had heard parts of it were kind of inappropriate...but I'll watch them for the plot.

My friend also went so far as to get into a relationship with a ghost, too. She started about two years ago and when we stopped talking 9 months ago the relationship was still going strong. I guess you can call it pretty serious; they used to stay up late into the night chatting over the Ouija together...yeah, I wish I was making this up. That experience with the child makes me vicariously horrified. I can't really deal with kids either; whenever I see any, I either try to avoid them or go the opposite way and try to be super-friendly, in which case I think I come off kinda creepy too. But that sounds like it would suck telling off, or being strict to, the inhabitants of the shelter. Cause they've been through a lot so you'd wanna be nice to them, but if they're ranting about ghosts it would take almost inhuman patience not to snap at one point. I can't stand parents who won't reign their children in; even if that lady believes in ghosts, that doesn't mean she can't keep her child from harassing someone who's just doing their job! Has your printout proven useful?

Aw, I kinda feel bad now...I have to admit I kind of like ghost stories, and am a little scared of empty dark places (although that doesn't necessarily have to be ghosts). I'm not sure if I believe in them though, or at least the popular way they're portrayed, Ghost Hunt-style. Souls of dead people lingering unseen somewhere? Maybe. Not stuff like hauntings, though.

Your jobs sound pretty cool, actually; you said before that you lucked out finding them, and it certainly sounds like it. Although it also sounds like you have to deal with a lot of frustration at work. I had been thinking you worked in the SPR to have to deal with ghost complaints! With the medicinal/diet stuff, I feel like you and Ozaki could bond over the pain of dealing with patients' beliefs in home remedies.

I'm even less educated than you two, but even I kind of roll my eyes at home remedies. One time when I was sick a relative bought me a necklace of stones that are supposed to 'suck away negative energy' from the body. I mean, I'm already sick, why do I need to put up with having a bunch of rocks around my neck too!? Of course I didn't get better, and then later it turns out I had pneumonia, so...that could've ended badly.

Especially with that new chapter, it seems like Masao exists just to be hated. In the anime I thought he was annoying and tried to copy Natsuno, but now I know he's annoying and abusive of his own volition. He's a good character I guess though, because he's actually realistic and those are the types of personages that I end up liking; sad as it sounds, there really are a lot of people like him around everywhere. As for Ritsuko, there you go--she doesn't do things that are too good for a normal person (maybe some people, but there are definitely people who'd behave the same way as she does), and love interests don't dominate her storyline. That's why I personally like Ritsuko; she's a pretty strong female character whose inner strength is shown without having her romantic feelings or lack thereof be the main focus. I really dislike heroines that are supposed to be 'strong' by dealing with their love interests in a way that shows they are smart and/or independent, but they're otherwise basic in all other aspects. It's refreshing to see her being awesome just by being herself!

I'm not very sympathetic to most of my shelter clients. That's a long, bitter, politicized talk, but nothing has made me more jaded and against funding anything to do with DV than working at our shelter and with our state and national DV councils. I know I'm working there willingly, but it's not for any love of the clients or the cause.

I'm just no damned fun at all on supernatural things. Horoscopes, birth signs, Ouija boards, talking to the dead, dousing, mystic medicine, chi, any of them will get me eye rolling and breathing fire. As you might expect, I don't get invited to a lot of parties. In me and a buddy's LP of a video game where you raise a magical girl, I refuse to let her touch faith and magic skills, even in a game where magic is explicitly real, on principal.

The neat thing about Ritsuko was they added a little love story with Tohru without taking anything away from her. Granted, I'm not sure she had any romantic interest in him or was just being kind, but she wasn't defined by romance, and also wasn't an "I DON'T NEED NO MAN" type. She was just Ritsuko, and that's enough. A lot of romances in anime/manga seem to take away from the character as a stand-alone character, which I guess is a given in some degree as when you're in a relationship like that it's normal to have your lives merge, but it doesn't mean I don't find it dull. It's not unrealistic that Tamahome has pretty much no other drive or anything else going on or inspiring his in life besides Miaka, but it sure does make him bland as hell.

Aw well, I guess if you work with them long enough they can start getting annoying. I'm not in your situation so I don't know exaaactly your reasons for being against them, but I can kinda relate because a lot of patients with pretty serious illnesses come into where I work, and some are so snobby and snappish and curmudgeon-y that I start hoping that they'd trip on their way out. Being afflicted with a hardship in your life just doesn't pardon you from being a royal douche.

Then do vampires and shikis and the like also rub you the wrong way like other supernatural stuff? A party where invitation is based on how much you enjoy Ouija-boarding isn't one most people would want to go anyway.

I think the problem with the "I DON'T NEED NO MAN" types is that they try so hard to make them seem independent (because of course, normal-acting girls are hated by fandoms for being doormats) which makes them come off really annoying. Both guys and girls can be in a relationship without being fiery and independent; believe it or not, it's okay not to push away your love interest when they're admitting their feelings! Who knew? I think that might be a factor in why people who watch that kind of stuff all the time have a reputation as being loners who nobody would date, because they assume that all relationships should be like what they see in anime with the tsunderes, while that would actually be pretty weird in real life. Back to Ritsuko, yeah, it's so refreshing that she interacts with a number of guys, but they don't throw her off or keep her from being a generally good person. It actually indicates a greater strength of character because even if she might feel flustered around Tohru, she hides it pretty well, and keeping control of yourself is a good trait to have. She's actually a stronger character for not tsun'ing out, she doesn't let no man change her awesome self.

I don't mind supernatural in fiction presuming it's not dues ex or anything like that (which annoys me even when non-supernatural), but I do find myself unable to experience it as horror. Even unknown horror--and a lot of horror relies on the unknown--as soon as it's decidedly supernatural, bam, at worst I'm in suspense for the characters, but the sense of fear won't be with me personally. I can be in horror of serial killers or illness or natural disasters or conspiracy no matter how unlikely, but the supernatural... eh.

Shiki would probably be a lot more effective as horror if I didn't know it was vampires. Drugs, serial killers, conspiracy; right now, I could probably still write up a possible (if improbable) explanation for everything.

It's still very successful as a suspense series or a character drama, and I can recognize scenes as very atmospherically creepy which makes it horror, I just do not personally experience the horror.

The only thing necessary to make me feel horror is cicadas! Once they're there, I'm cowering.

I think it's really reiterated that a horror story becomes scarier if you feel like it can actually happen. I wonder how I'd feel if I was reading Shiki without having seen the anime? Probably still kind of enjoying the slow horror. But it can be argued that the true horror of Shiki comes from the fear and reactions of the characters? Or rather, that the shiki are only catalysts for displaying the real horror. For instance, we're already how far into the book and everyone knows about this scary illness that's killing people and it's impossible to pin down. That could happen in real life, and although it's caused by the shiki, it could very well be the situation with a new illness being discovered in some isolated village. Also the paranoia of the people, and even the dysfunction of the village as a whole is very 'horror' if you think about it, because it brings suspense that with all that tension, something will happen. And of course, all those creepy empty characters (I'm looking at you, Monk) that rely on lolis to keep them going too. So the shiki are all but absent so far on, and the author probably wrote it that way on purpose to add a dose of horror that doesn't rely on just the supernatural but is created by a group of people with high levels of paranoia.

Hmm, at this point my explanation could be that Ozaki was involved with the mafia at one point during college. Then he got the leader mad, and escaped with his life back to Sotoba. Now the gang knows how important the village really is to Ozaki, so they're trying to kill it off, one by one, to inflict as much suffering on Ozaki as possible. Their weapon of choice is a new poison that induces the illness that causes all of the deaths. They can't possibly kill everyone, so some people they bribe to cut all ties, quit jobs, and move out etc. And Ozaki recognizes that it's the work of the gang somehow (he either a) recognizes the poison which has been a trademark of this gang since he was a part of it, or b) sees a gang member and guesses the truth). That's why he doesn't want these cases to be made public, because his past with the gang is kind of shady too, and doing so would put the blame on him too. The person who attacks Masao is a gang member.
How'd I do?

The comic turned into something different as soon as I started drawing. I felt like Akira needed to be in it...

I sat in silence for a good three minutes straight wondering how I could succinctly sum up the wonder of that comic. The panel flow is just fantastic--usually we amateur artists just kind of slap our panels down willy-nilly but somehow yours really adds to the comic pacing, and ending with "What beauty!" rather than a disgusted face fault as would be expected makes it so much funnier. Ozaki's expression is very much the one I imagine he'd make if peeked at, too--annoyed, but not actually angry. ... Which might be how he feels towards most of the villagers most of the time.

That comic is now my IM status message, rather than the academic reference to Ozakis and their lengths.

I'm glad you liked it! Haha, it was really impromptu, but the impromptu things are sometimes the ones that turn out better than if they had been planned. I actually was planning to put a disgusted face on the end! But I didn't just because I didn't have room on the page. But it all turned out even better, so it's all good. I had always wondered if Akira was nearing that 'awkward around girls' age...Like if whenever Megumi came over he always tried to peek at her or something.

It's sad to see the Ozakis and their lengths status go, but change is but a truth of life. You should add me so I can like it!

What beauty!

I don't know if you can 'like' AIM statuses, but my AIM's cdnmmastermind. Warning that it's on even when I'm not around (like now; it's on at home, I'm talking to you, but I'm at work so I don't have AIM and can't talk with you from there).

I've had an AIM for forever but then I went back and I realized I forgot my password...and I deleted the recovery email account too, like an idiot. So I made a new one, and one of the settings it prompted me to pick was 'notify me when someone likes my status' so I just assumed you could.
Thanks for the heads up so I know you're not ignoring me or anything! There's an app for it so I can probably chat on my phone too but I type kinda slow.

Okay, gonna add you! \._./

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Shiki Novel Translations 2.2.0

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