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Sinnesspiel ([personal profile] sinnesspiel) wrote2013-11-06 03:05 pm

Shiki Novel Translations 7.6

6



Spreading out a fresh sheet of Japanese writing paper over the desk, Seishin hunched his upper body forward slightly over it. The chair that had been used since his grandfather's time let out a creak like a sigh into the still of the night. With a spaced out stare up to the aging grains of wood on the ceiling, his vacant attentions lingered on the past, cornered by a single word.

----What the hell happened?

(Nothing...)

---Mind if I ask why?

(There wasn't any reason or anything.)

He played with his pencil in his hand as he thought.

The hard lead was sharpened to a fine tip like the point of a sword.

When he had first started writing novels, for some reason or another he had it in his mind that he should write in pen, so he made use of a fountain pen that he never did get used to. That summer, fearing the way the ink smeared, he switched to pencil. His dorm room was so hot that the air trapped between the Japanese writing paper and his left hand warped under the heat.. Just leaning forward caused the sweat to pour endlessly, the ink becoming brown and blue halos.

The reason he had used slim, hard leaded pencils for each short story was because it no matter what the grit of the pencil would end up littering the paper. He tried a different hardness of the lead, a different maker, and about the time he had found his present model, an upperclassman who had graduated had come by the dorms to hang out. Tsuhara who had entered the publishing industry took Seishin's manuscript with him, then returned with orders for him to rewrite it. How many times did he fix it, as told? After some count of times, Tsuhara took the manuscript with him and, that night, there was a phone call. We're printing it, he was told, and he remembered not having any idea what he was talking about.

---Weren't you writing looking to go pro?

Remembering that conversation, even now a wry smile leaked out. It wasn't as if he'd by any means particularly thought about becoming an author.

---Then, why did you fix every little thing every time I told you to!

Becauset he was told it would be better to fix it; and the next time Tsuhara came by he would ask "Did you fix it?" and so for no other reason he showed it to him.

---You are a real piece of work.

Tsuhara's voice overlapped with the dorm adviser Muramatsu's.

---It's you we're talking about, how can you not know?

(Even now I still don't.)

As if mesmerized, Seishin stared at his left hand atop the writing paper. The cheap, boorish model of wristwatch. The reason he had started wearing it was, of course, to cover the scar that was there. Now there was nothing more to see of that scar than a white line but still, if he took off his wristwatch, he himself was suddenly taken aback by what a scar it was.

---There's no way you were drunk, is there? I heard you basically never drank.

(Indeed, I have no memory of drinking.)

---If it's hard to say, a letter or anything will be fine.

The first composition he wrote, intending to sound out his own heart, somewhere along the line became chaos, skipping from point to point, repeating itself. When he'd turned it in to Muramatsu, he appeared to be deeply, sincerely annoyed.

---I don't have any idea what you're trying to say. Isn't this a novel?

Looking at it again having been told that, it did indeed resemble a novel. The next time, he wrote from the beginning with the intent to write a novel. For Seishin who didn't particularly have anything like a hobby, it became the closest thing he had to one.


Why. Why, this of all things?

Why would you consent to sin thusly?

Why, he was asked by so many people, but Seishin couldn't answer. To tell the truth, it was because he didn't know the reason, himself. If truly pressed to say something, it was just that he wanted to try it. That was it. In his second year of college, at the end of the year party, he thought. Suddenly, he just felt like it. Vaguely, he knew that it wasn't enough to die from but, dying or not dying wasn't that important at the time, he thought now. He left the drinking party early, returning to the dormitory bathroom. It was the season of end-of-the-year parties, and the season for going home, so the community bathroom was unmanned. There, indifferent, he cut into himself.

In truth, no matter how he thought about it, Seishin couldn't think of anything that had happened for him to wish death on himself. He wasn't particularly unhappy, nor did he by any means have any particular self loathing. Because he knew that a person would not die from cutting their wrists, it was unlikely that he really wanted to die.Seishin had a feeling that at that time for himself the meaning was not in the result but in doing the act itself. It was not that he wanted to die, he didn't think it was anything other than wanting to try dying, but the origin of that impulse was one he didn't understand well even now.

Beneath the wristwatch, while hidden the scar was still evident. Everyone in the village knew about it. That was why they pretended not to see, and before Seishin knew it he was used to it. Just when, he thought, did it feel like something that people couldn't see?

(....It was not jealousy.)

Seishin gripped his pencil.

He was still possessed by something. The sudden murderous intent took him unexpectedly.

(No) Seishin murmured. He had just wanted to try it. With no murderous intent, he killed his little brother. (.... It's better this way.)



The hallway confined within grey stone was empty, dusk and dawn alike basking in its widths. The dark, dull grey pile up had no decoration aside from a glass window very high up in one corner, light shining down through it diagonally.

The light, donning a melancholy hue, glistened on the white linen cloth. Spread out above the cold stone paving, the reason for the rises and falls drawn by the white sheet was was that beneath it were laid out his little brother's remains.

He and the sage, with his little brother's remains interposed betwixt them, had a confrontation. And yet even so, he could not pry his eyes from the dull light of the linen cloth, and because of that very light shining down, he, in the dimmer still light, had the sensation of a singularly abandoned orphan.

----Why would thou commit such a sin?

The sage had been asking him such through dusk. And yet even so, he could not answer. If you wish to know why it was because him himself did not know the reason that he had killed his little brother.

He was the one who wanted to ask why.

His single blood relative, gentle and with a profound kindness, like an incarnation of splendor itself was his brethern. He did, in reality, love his brother, and liked living together with his little brother. As to why he had to kill his little brother, he had no sort of reason at all. Yet nevertheless, he took up arms against his brother.

It was an impulse of an attack. Surely, there was no murderous intent towards his brother. Yet raising a weapon against his brother certainly did bring about his brother's death as a result.

That little brother became a Shiki and trailed him across the wasteland. His futile stare seemed always to be asking, always, why? Had he a clear reason for murderous intent, if he'd had any grounds on which to criticize his brother, or had it been self defense, he would have to please forgiveness and yet, he had none of them and he could not. He could do not but hate that fleeting impulse, not but grieve that its result was his little brother's death. ----That wasn't its intention.

I definitely never hated you.

It wasn't like I'd wanted you to die. There wasn't anything I wanted to get revenge for or make you realize.

Forgive me, into the dawn he moaned, taking to his knees upon the cold wastelands. His brother's answer, of course, did not come.

Seeking a gust of wind into which he could fathom an auditory hallucination, he at last fell to sleep.

8D

(Anonymous) 2013-11-07 08:04 am (UTC)(link)
Novel!Seishin is in a way 30 times weirder/creepier or is it just me

To think about it, maybe Toshio is really his only 'real' friend. Toshio genuinely likes him, no matter how weird/eccentric he is (his behavior/personality may have unsettled a lot of people, a lot of those who know how he is don't seem to be able to actually like him) even after that moment of moral horizon, I don't think Toshio has come to hate him. Maybe dislikes what he did, but not his person. (afterwards Seishin is able to find a friend in Sunako too, and in a way that's good for him) Toshio knows what kind of person he is (well there are things he doesn't know obviously) but still generally he knows but he still likes him despite however he is, they're quite the total opposite but still he likes him

Romantic or no romantic that's beautiful.

And lol Seishin's apparently the type who does whatever people demand of him. Having a best friend like Toshio, I wonder how their childhood was. Toshio must have dragged Seishin to a lot of troubles he caused.

So you basically have two surprises? Looking forward to that!

And yeah, I think Toshio knows that Seishin didn't actually want to die.

8D

(Anonymous) 2013-11-08 06:05 am (UTC)(link)
ah, Toshio. A tsundere who actually has a quite big heart (ironically it isn't reserved for his family) maannn his cold stare when he saw his mother's corpse creeped me out. Even Seishin looked sad when his mother and those temple people died.

Were Seishin not particularly apathetic (towards himself, towards everything), I think he'd have gone mad already. He's deep and complicated, but yeah he does seem empty in many ways. Toshio is much more passionate. (lol I wonder about his deprived sex life. He must be distressed a lot but no outlet. Seishin is too apathetic to even think about his own)

Toshio chapters are gem. Waka-combi chapters are double gems. (no matter how much I like each of them alone, I love their chapters together even more.)

8D

(Anonymous) 2013-11-09 10:27 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not here only for waka-combi you know, of coursee I'll stick around every time. I enjoy Shiki as a whole 8DD

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-08 05:48 am (UTC)(link)
I feel like Novel Seishin is a lot different than manga/anime Seishin. Anime/manga Seishin seemed like a trusted adult figure on the surface; mature and soft-spoken, he saw his suicide attempt as something foolish that he did when he was young, something he didn't really understand himself. He seemed wise and somewhat weary, not wanting to go along with Toshio's hot-blooded idea of there being vampires in the village (took him long enough amirite) and doesn't want to jump to conclusions. Which makes it all the more jarring when he totally flips out with Sunako, his world-view is suddenly shaken, and the idea of him being wise and introspective is shattered because his decision seems really immature.
However, novel Seishin is someone who I can see turning away from his village, rejecting the ones who rejected him. He still seems unstable, kind of brittle and emotionally removed from the village. So he's kind of buried within himself? It's very rare that we see him responding to outside stimuli apart from what is expected from him by the village (like with the broom- he seemed creeped out and very human at the time). So he doesn't seem rounded or confident in his position as he does in the manga/anime. I can easily imagine this version of him flipping out, unable to decide what's right and what's wrong.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-10 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmmm yeah I guess with the new introspection I can read more into his outside actions, but I must have somewhat misread him in the manga/anime in that case. For those, I saw him as calm on the outside and somewhat calm on the inside as well (when he's obviously not). I thought that he was calm, not breaking apart at the seams, and seemingly has accepted his life in the village. However, Sunako drags out his wonder about the world and so he's not so reliable and down-to-earth anymore, but in the novel it's clear he's not truly 'down to earth' to begin with.

But what if Seishin hadn't encountered Sunako, what if the Kirishikis hadn't moved to the village? What would become of him? I'm getting the impression that he probably would have snapped eventually and ran out and abandoned his duties, or gone through with suicide.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-13 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
Ah yes, the elder Mr. Muroi. I didn't really understand that part. He didn't really want to be a priest either, did he? I initially thought he just became a Shiki to escape the pain of his failing health?

Weeeeeell, it's just his outlook on them! If he accepted the temple as being a cool and prestigious place on top of a mountain where he can write all he wants, he could realize that he actually has it kind of nice.

All the threads have spoilers tbh

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-16 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess both Seishin and Toshio kind of take after their fathers, don't they? Even if they don't mean to. I was thinking another reason Seishin resents his post so much is because everyone respects him, but because he's a monk, not for being Seishin. Most of the normal villagers have to make their own way and earn everyone's respect (if they want to), but Seishin has it the easy way. But he doesn't want the easy way. And neither does his dad, probably. Yeah, I think the Muroi dad is a better role model than the Ozaki daddy.
Really, the anime/manga didn't really mention Seishin's curiosity rather than him wondering why he wanted to see his dying friend (totally forgot his name)so bad, and if he figured out the shiki situation. I'm looking forward to more novel-only material!

So does shikifying apply to diseases too? Like if your leg is amputated, it'll still be amputated when you rise up. But what if you have tuberculosis? Would you still be a sick Shiki?

Oh, I like the idea that he considers his writings deeply personal! From what we've read so far about his writing, it is really dark and reflects a lot of his mindset. And the Cain and Abel story is revealed to be about his struggle with himself and his attempted suicide. I can definitely see why he'd be annoyed when Ozaki puts out his article; he's invading his privacy! And this also reveals that Toshio just doesn't really understand. He doesn't see his friend within his writing, and thinks it's just irrelevant fiction. He would be sly enough to tease him by displaying his works, but if he really knew what they meant to his friend, I don't think he would have done so. So the question is, why does he publish them if they're personal?

Re: All the threads have spoilers tbh

(Anonymous) 2013-11-17 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
8D - naw, even people who like to hide from others, even apathetic people, have this feeling of wanting to be seen, recognized and understood. I don't know about Seishin's case but that's pretty much how everyone feels. Many people don't want attention, but sometimes do want it.

This is funny because this is something I can relate with, as I (like everyone else) love to write stories, and my main characters usually end up having many similarities with myself. If you ask why, first because I can understand myself better than other personalities/people. Second, this is somehow a kind of outlet? For brooding type like myself, this is also another way to explore myself. Third, with making them resembling myself, it'll be easier for me to bond with them and love them (though sometimes they do feel boring). I'm already past the age of making Mary Sue characters though, haha!

That's me, though, I don't know about Seishin.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-26 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
That's true, but it can also be flipped another way and then to see personal writings is like a personal intrusion. Like if I decided to write a long poem about how I feel, a bunch of stuff I wouldn't tell anyone, and then someone just read that in front of me? I'd feel violated to the core!

Also, maybe there's the factor that Seishin is a priest, so maybe he feels further trapped in that he can't publish everything that he might want to write, because he represents the temple so it can't be anything too gruesome or depressing. It's fun to muse about Seishin!

I completely agree though, that the best characters are the ones that are born from a chunk of your own self. How can you believably write someone that you can't understand anyway? And Seishin took this a step farther by actually ripping his own self into two characters. He has to have a pretty interesting mindset in order to do that, I expect that he would be an interesting guy to talk to in person.

Re: I've been trying to link some people who don't know the series here, altely.

(Anonymous) 2013-11-21 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
8D - that's the same Tsuhara? O.o ugh I have forgotten a lot of both the manga and anime. But does Tsuhara knows that what Seishin wrote is actually his own tale though? Maybe at some point he could tell, but I don't think he could tell every time.

Toshio is too different from him in personality, yet he actually is able to understand Seishin in the end of Shiki (or he 'gets' it to some degree) so maybe he could get this to an extent if he does try to think. Maybe Toshio actually knows Seishin better than what we think. Now I want a Toshio meta.

Any luck?

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-11-26 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, it was Tokujirou! I knew it was a Yasumori. Heh, I guess consumption was a bad example of diseases that could potentially live on in a Shiki...no, in that case I think that diseases would be healed, because like if you had lung, liver, or heart failure like a chronic disease with that, it wouldn't even matter because the only part of the Shiki that really matters to them is blood.

"Because somebody told him to."
I think that's actually a really accurate description of Seishin in general. A lot of the things he does is because somebody told him to do so. He was bossed around my Toshio as a boy, his father probably made him do a good deal of stuff, and also rather than a person pressuring him, he has his duties telling him how to behave and what actions to take. It's very rare that we see Seishin doing something of his own volition, other than writing and taking walks at night. I like that he does, it shows his spirit a little bit, maybe. Although he has all these expectations, he still finds time to do what he likes, even at the expense of not getting enough sleep 99% of the time.

The great thing about literature (or just works in general I guess!) is that you can reread them over and over and get something new out of it each time. A new spin on it, a new approach to a character, and you suddenly see them in a new light. I like getting to know the characters as I read.

Are they just not interested or...? They don't know what they're missing.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-03 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
It's too bad that Shiki's so underground. But you know what they say, it's quality rather than quantity that counts; it's better to have a few fans who really appreciate the series than a bunch who watch it for the bishounens.

But Seishin probably knows that staying up all night writing is hard on himself. He's like "yeah, morning will be hell...but this is the only time to do what I like to do, so I'm going to use it."
It's easy to see him as a sympathetic character who has all these expectations forced onto him, though, but he can always own his role, so to speak. I mean, an ideal doctor would also be...not Toshio-like, but Toshio manages to perform his duties while still being his spirited self. I don't see why it would hurt Seishin to mold himself sometimes instead of letting the rest of the village do it for him. But then again, if he's been having decisions made for him since a young age...Oh man, I could muse about him forever!

Hah, maybe that's another reason why he tags along with Toshio; he gives him an opportunity to be more, well, normal. Even if Toshio to him is as bad as we can perceive him to be (invasive, uncaring, domineering), through him Seishin can live a little.

But that's the best part of it...

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-09 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
Long, detailed stories like Shiki are the best in my opinion! Plus, culture notes are almost my favorite part of it. I like the insight they give you on the story, and really it's not a long nor painstaking process to read them.

The Shiki brand of bishounens is rather...pointy though. Heh, I read this review about the anime a while ago that mentioned that Toshio could just use dat chin as a an impromptu stake. Like defending against Chizuru, he'd just ram his chin between her boobs (it's not like he'd mind!)

Yeah, Seishin identifying against his dad should provide more insight into Seishin himself; I always thought that they had the same situation, too. Maybe his reluctance to mold himself the way he wants is a part of his character too; it shows that he's passive. And if he's passive at the beginning and he's a main character, it's likely that we'll gradually see him becoming more assertive. I also hope that Monk Sr. will get more screentime here because he totally fades into the background in the anime (I need to reread the manga, I read it like once two years ago...) so he doesn't leave a huge impression. I like that the book explores more of the characters to help the reader get to know the village better; not as much as Toshio or Seishin maybe, but enough to lament what happens to most of them eventually.

I also don't think that frequent meetings between 'business partners' would have the same significance as they do between Toshio and Seishin the childhood friends. It's obvious there's some sort of feeling between them, but it's not clear exactly what it is. See how we're still guessing on it? That's what a good book does! It's clear that Seishin and Toshio have lots of bonds and memories that can't be destroyed, but their friendship is also flawed because of the way they go their separate ways, and also how quickly it becomes strained. The strain would be more obvious if they weren't adults but since they are, the strain is barely tangible, they're passive-aggressive about it.
Well, this whole time we've been saying that Seishin might have negative feelings toward Toshio, but is the other way around also true? Does Toshio look down on Seishin for going along with everyone's expectations in the way that Toshio himself did not?
sotobas_lot: (Exhale)

RP account to showcase stake nose and stake chin. His face is a saw blade.

[personal profile] sotobas_lot 2013-12-09 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
When she goes for the bite at the shrine before Ohkawa grabs her, Ozaki does seem to be lifting his chin. I'd thought maybe he intended to head-butt (because otherwise the obvious move would be to tuck your chin and protect the throat, wouldn't it?) but maybe he was planning to chin-stake. The reason he never fully shaved was to keep his secret stake barbed for extra attack power.

I'd thought they'd had the same situation until combing ahead for names/details for the family tree. From what I glanced in a more detailed, recent combing (my last graze was three years ago now) it seems he's similar but when Sunako suggests Seishin's story is an exact reflection of his dad's situation, Seishin seems to think it's a bit different, in part because he had someone like Toshio in youth to discuss the burden with and to discover that, if he were to be "free", what else was he really going to do, anyway?

Yeah, shounen/child characters' fall outs are so much more clear cut, aren't they? With either heart warming patch-ups or eternal begrudging rivalries. Adults have to be all mature about it, especially when they're required to work together.

As for Ozaki, I think he's a little too busy to look down on Seishin for that, what with how busy he is looking down on himself for going along with everyone's expectations and coming back, falling into his dad's old patterns of being Ikumi's (and everyone's) on call gossip victim, only really being there as a source of referrals for anything that won't fix itself with the usual meds and bed rest, etc.

He's a lean mean sawing machine.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-10 04:23 am (UTC)(link)
Whoops, did I say 'sawing'? I meant 'sewing'. He sews all of Kyoko's outfits, obviously! Did you pick out the fabric for the one piece romper yet, Sensei?

Like a cobra, Ozaki has to rear back for ultimate striking power. This article on him explains it best:
"Ozakis can reach 18 feet (5.5 meters) in length, making them the longest of all village doctors. When confronted, they can raise up to one-third of their bodies straight off the ground and still move forward to attack. They will also flare out their iconic chins and emit a bone-chilling stubble vibration that sounds almost like a chainsaw."


Another minus to Seishin: I bet as a child, he saw what his dad was dealing with, and if he was as sharp as the book makes us think he was, he probably predicted that he would turn out the same. So you would think that he would be like "eugh! I'll never be like that. I'm becoming my own person." which it kind of sounded like when he was talking to Ozaki about resisting the expectations that are forced on them. But that was all talk, or maybe he really did want to break away from his father's fate, but as he grew up, he realized that it was a useless effort (growing up sucks, doesn't it?). So in this case, his speech about Sotoba being "surrounded by death" makes sense because for him, it's like a black hole that he'll never be able to get out of. It's his cradle; he lived there, he'll die there (if only)--so for him, he really is surrounded by death.
Maybe the whole difference between them is that Seishin is just more introspective. Toshio is people-oriented and has a much closer relationship with the villagers (despite being understandably frustrated by them all the time) than Seishin does. He just doesn't stop to think about being trapped in the village; he's more action.

If Seishin and Toshio were like ten years younger, it would be a lot easier to put all of their feelings on the table and resolve their issues. But since they're adults, it wouldn't be fitting, and neither of them really wants to unload on each other anymore (proof of how far apart they've grown?).

Yeah, maybe Ozaki isn't the type to analyze his best friend in a negative light. His focus is a lot more narrow, so he can analyze him self just as well, but he's more extroverted so he's more involved in the village. However, he's not really emotionally connected to the villagers, doesn't see the way their minds work as well as Seishin does. Seishin sees them as individuals, Ozaki sees them as his patients and his responsibility.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-13 01:50 am (UTC)(link)
Kyoko didn't stay so long because Takae asked her to; she stayed because it was taking so long for seamstress sensei to patch up her favorite dress. Can't go back to Mizobe without it.

I hope you didn't copy and paste the article without including a proper citation. It is a credible source after all, and should be properly documented whenever it is used for educational purposes.
I have an AIM too, but I haven't logged on in god knows how long as I usually text instead. I'm tempted to go on check out the new old territory now..

Maybe that's because Toshio just isn't capable of/isn't prone to that kind of self-analysis that Seishin always does. Going back to how they're adults and things are tense between them, Seishin might be reluctant to unload on Toshio for the very reason that Toshio always unloads on him. But he doesn't unload in deep, philosophical stuff, so Seishin might not want to either because he thinks Toshio might find that irrelevant. In real life, the more you share about yourself with other people, the more they share back, but the thing is that someone has to start the sharing in order to begin.

Fictional people are easier for me at least to analyze just because they have less dimension than real life people. For fictional characters, their behavior is consistent, while real life people might undergo experiences or mood shifts that change their whole personality for a time. Also, with fictional characters you get inner monologues but in real life it's always impossible to know exactly what that person is thinking; even if they're telling you everything, there will always be a small thought that they will neglect to share.
I'm capable of Seishin-level introspection sometimes, but I'm so dim when it comes to guessing about other people. Some can easily pick up on emotions and 'see right through you', but if someone won't tell me how they're feeling chances are I'll never know...although that won't stop me from guessing.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-15 05:53 am (UTC)(link)
But does the village take precedence over his own wife?
...actually, yes.

Well, assuming Toshio is a normal person with a normal person's empathetic capabilities, and Seishin had never shown in any way that he felt the way he does, I think he would either be shocked and upset, or unable to take him seriously and make awkward, vague consolations about it like "life sucks, doesn't it?". Knowing Toshio it would probably be the latter, but he wouldn't understand Seishin's feelings on a fundamental level. It would have nothing to do with whether he's a sociopath or not, but they're just totally different people that Toshio might just assume Seishin means something else and totally miss the point. Or also he could just not really understand that it bothers Seishin a lot and blow it off.
But if we go with the first option where Toshio is shocked and upset, he would see his friend in a totally different light and be unable to joke with him anymore and be more guarded, afraid to somehow set him off. Basically, he would treat Seishin the way the rest of the village treats him in regards to his suicide attempt. And maybe Seishin knows this, and doesn't want to have the one person who treats him normally, suddenly treat him like a pariah.
But then the newest chapter throws a wrench in this because Toshio really does see him as fragile already; the question is, does Seishin know this?

I think fictional characters are like 'cleaned up' versions of real people; that is to say that like you said, they are characters without daily life mixed in and also idealized. Who hasn't wanted to be a fictional character at one point, because the fictional character can exemplify what kind of a person you want to be? However, the characters we're usually drawn to aren't the perfect ones; they're the complicated ones, with backstory, with grudges, with irrational behavior. In short, the characters that are considered the best-developed are those that are the most like real people. A big difference between real life characters and fictional ones is that real life people have several different 'faces'. There's nobody that, in their daily interactions with people, shows exactly who they really are, to everyone at least. People act differently when interacting with different people sometimes, and that's natural. For people to click, they have to get on the same wavelength, which means tweaking their behavior a little bit. So you can talk to basically anyone in real life, but you can never know who they really are. Their daily life, the monotony of routines can dull them on the outside, but inside they still retain experiences, feelings, memories that make them who they are. Fictional characters are constant; they act like one character throughout the whole work, so their actions are at least somewhat predictable. Real life people however can't be really predicted unless you know them very well. Whether that's good or bad is up to debate, but.
I think the main difference is that fictional characters' complexities are at the surface where the reader can see them and so do the characters they interact with; if not at once, then eventually. People have complexities but they're deeper down, harder to get at, and less concentrated so it takes very long to explore every facet of your acquaintance's personality.

[personal profile] airlynx 2013-12-25 04:30 am (UTC)(link)
Toshio and Seishin are such different people, too, that Toshio might just empathize, but not sympathize with him, and fail to understand the depth of Seishin's problems. He might understand what Seishin is going through, but they have such different personalities that he probably couldn't see himself going through the same as Seishin and therefore be somewhat emotionally removed from it all. Therefore, he'd feel bad that his best friend is going through a bad time, kind of like how people feel if they find out a coworker's friend got into an accident, like 'Oh, that's too bad. I feel really bad, poor person". However, he couldn't apply those same feelings to himself so there's that distance. I think that at the end when Seishin leaves, or maybe after, when Ozaki is wondering why he left, is when he finally understands Seishin. He said something like "yeah, that sounds like Seishin" which might mean that he realizes he has understood all along--but hasn't put the pieces together.

Personally, I would prefer people to disagree with me rather than being falsely kind. You can usually tell when someone's being fake, and that kind of patronizing is frustrating beyond all belief; it's most likely that Seishin feels the same way. Maybe that's why he stopped talking about his problems or drawing attention to how he feels, because he's tired of the false sympathy. If someone disagreed with him, that would mean that they hold his opinion in esteem, but don't find him fragile enough to avoid being open with their own take on it.


I think that there are and have been people around who are more deep than the people around them: the people who have gone down in history, like the philosophers, as well as those who didn't have as big of a voice and didn't leave their mark. This would indeed suggest that the rest of us aren't as deep, but maybe we are but aren't expressing it so clearly or unlocking it. Characters are constant like you said, and their actions and reactions make sense if you know the context and their personality. But real people are more fickle, and perhaps that makes them a bit more unpredictable as well. For instance, say a character does something mean to another one. In fiction, the other would be rightly offended, and remain righteous throughout (if that's the kind of person they are--if they're an extreme doormat, they would not). But maybe that's the point, too, because you would assume that only a total doormat would forgive the offense, and doing so would signify a weak will. But in real life, if this happened, the victim's feelings may fluctuate and eventually maybe even let the offense go--and they don't have to be weak-willed, either. Maybe the person has some past experience with it; maybe they can empathize with the aggressor; but at one point, they have to stop and say "Maybe there's more to it than if I just get mad. It might be worth it to let it go." And it would take a strong will, too, to battle yourself and your initial emotion of "I'm done with your bs" which calls for instantly getting mad. If you're jaded, then I guess I'm somewhat naive and idealistic about these kinds of things. I guess the bottom line here is that in my opinion, people are complex too because they are so versatile with ever-changing tempers and opinions that make them so unpredictable; just when you think they'll act one way, a previously unknown factor can jump in and influence them into going the opposite direction, and it would be very hard to imitate a character like this in fiction.