Shiki Novel Translations 3.7.2

[sinnesspiel]

2

"Thank you very much."

Takemura Genichi bowed his head to Seishin. Genichi ran a hardware shop in Sotoba's shopping district. Today was the thirteenth anniversary of his wife's passing.

In heading from the main temple building to the tatami mourning room, Genichi expressed his clear gratitude, and then charged that lately the village had quite a few misfortunes. 

"It makes you wonder what's happened. A few days ago, the Shimizu's lost their son, yes?"

Seishin looked at Genichi's face. "Shimizu? Which Shimizu-san?"

"The gardener Shimizus. Masaji-san's."

"But Shimizu Ryuuji-san was this summer---" he started to say, but Genichi raised his hand saying no, no. 

"The grandson. What was he called again? Uhm...  Yuu-kun."

"His grandson has died?"

"That's right, he has. The funeral was just yesterday. With his son, that's two. Old man Masaji, of course, is pretty down over it, yeah? It's just him and the son's wife there alone in the house now. And then last night, the wife went back to her family too. Masaji-san figured she might be going back to live with her family himself, but who'd have thought the night the funeral was finished? That's low, that lack of empathy."

Is that right, Seishin said lowering his eyes. Masaji didn't have any connection to him but the Shimizus weren't of the temple. Before when following up on Shimizu Ryuuji's case, he'd felt sympathy for the wife and grandson left behind, he'd wondered what the wife would do when the grandson went off to college and left the village he'd been saying but it turned out that grandson died without even going off to college. 

(And even more so, last evening....)

This might have been just as Genichi had said, simply returning to her own family. But there were a lot of people disappearing in the night---abnormally often. 

There was a pain deep in his heart. Seishin still couldn't seize the determination to hunt the Shiki. He couldn't get past the fact that it would be rekilling those who had returned to life. But while he was idling like this, the calamity was growing. When he thought of the dead Ryuuji and Yuu, Masaji left behind, Ryuuji's wife who returned to her family, what he felt was not a bizarre sense of care, he realized then, but guilt for his own hesitation.

"Well, it can't be helped that things turned out like this but. Still, I just can't get on board with using a funeral home."

Seishin tilted his head. Did he mishear him while caught up in his own thoughts? He didn't understand what Genichi had said. Feeling Seishin's stare on him, Genichi murmured. "Ah. The Junior Monk isn't aware yet. They've made a funeral home. ---They've finished it, right? Hey, that's right, isn't it, Auntie?"

Right behind him as Genichi turned around was the Takemura Stationary shop's Tatsu. Tatsu was Genichi's aunt.

"They've finished it. That's what I heard but that was a while ago, so it might even be opened now." Tatsu said bluntly, turning sharply. She turned her eyes to the courtyard.

 "At the furthest bottom point of Kami-Sotoba, where Hirokane used to be at? There's quite a big building there. Though once the old lady was the only one left,  she closed up the carpentry shop."

"Ah......"

"That old woman, she moved out with everything still in it and it became an abandoned house. But then lately there, it seems construction's started up in the area. They've put up a sign board. It says they're the Sotoba Funeral Home, it seems. ---Isn't that right, Auntie?"

Genichi again turned to look to Tatsu. Tatsu nodded with a face looking largely disinterested. 

"Auntie knows all about it already, see," Genichi laughed. "But, huh. So the Junior Monk was not aware of it. If they were going to run a funeral home, it would seem like they would need to give word, to say something to the temple about it, for something like that."

"That wouldn't be necessary," Seishin prevaricated. It wasn't as if everything and anything had to go through the temple first by any means. But---Seishin had a strange feeling. There were too many who'd left the village to count. Because of that, like teeth falling out of an old and still aging comb, the number of abandoned houses in the village were increasing. So somebody moved into one. Somehow that it was a funeral home pulled at his consciousness for reasons he couldn't say.

Seeing off Genichi and Tatsu from the tatami room, Seishin returned to the temple office. With the pressure of work to be done, he would also have to pass on the meal with the parishioners. 

As he returned to the temple office, there was a nemo from Mitsuo on top of the desk. From Toshio, huh, Seishin thought with a bit of guilt, peering over the note and furrowing his brows. Yasumori Tokujiro was showing symptoms---.

Seishin picked up the phone and called the Ozaki Clinic, subconsciously checking his surroundings. There was no sign of anybody in or around the temple office. 

The one to answer the phone was the nurse Satoko. Saying he wanted to speak to Toshio, after a short wait, Toshio came on.

"Toshio, Tokujirou-san is..."

"It's that. Without a doubt. Probably on the second or third day. It sounds like Tokujirou-san's had a dream about Nao-san coming back too."

Seishin was silent. What Toshio was saying was clear. Seishin looked back over his shoulder. Tokujirou had just been at the all night vigil and the funeral. By then, had he already been showing signs of the illness? With things what they were, it was normal to be depressed, taciturn, it was seen as basically only normal to be in that kind of shocked daze. Looking back at it, those were indeed the preliminary symptoms but it wasn't distinct. Once again Seishin breathed a sigh at the difficulty this disease presented. 

"For the time being I'm trying to treat him but he himself says he doesn't want to be hospitalized. He insists he doesn't want to leave the house. But I don't know if that's Tokujirou-san's own will or if he's got detailed instructions from somebody to answer like that. For a patient at that stage, his consciousness's too clear. But in spite of how he is all the rest of the time, he's strangely clear when he's saying no, so the odds of it being the latter are high."

"Yes..."

"Sorry, but can I have you try and stress it to him too? Can I have you talk to him for me? If that doesn't work, can you take some steps to make sure he doesn't have any strange dreams?"

Seishin nodded. "......I'll try it."

"Also, there's a little something I wanna talk about. What time'll you be free today?"

"It'll be in the evening. I'll also have Tokujirou-san to see to, so I'll be by in the night."

"Counting on it," Toshio said, hanging up the phone. Seishin also hung up and looked at the schedule. Today was relatively open. There was another service at three o'clock but in the mean time he could go to see about Tokujirou's condition, he planned. 

Changing into his casual clothes in the storage closet, he searched for Miwako and Mitsuo to give them notice he was going out. As he heated further in to the house, Mitsuo himself was running up with an unusual expression.

"Ah, Junior Monk."

"What's happened?"

"The Head Monk has,"

At the sound of Mitsuo's voice, Seishin felt the blood drain out of himself in an instant. It couldn't be, something had happened to his father. As Seishin stiffened his posture, Mitsuo beckoned him. 

"The Head Monk is saying he wishes to set out no matter what. Please, do stop him."

At Mitsuo's words, Seishin found himself letting out a relieved breath without thinking. "----Set out?"

"Yes. When I brought him in lunch, I'd told him at the time that it seems Tokujirou-san's health was failing him. Junior Monk, did you also see the memo I'd left for you?"

"Yes. That was why I thought I would go to visit him now, but."

Mitsuo nodded. 

"And then, he said that he wanted to go pay a get well visit to Tokujirou-san no matter what. That's, I know that he's known Tokujirou-san for a long time now but even with that said. How about wishing him well by phone, I said to him but he said if I wouldn't bring him, he would crawl there!"

That's, Seishin started, his eyes wide. That behavior was completely unlike Shinmei. He had never heard of Shinmei being so persistent on having his own way against other's wills. 

At any rate for the time being he went on past Mitsuo in that direction. 

"Please stop," Miwako's troubled voice could be heard. "Mitsuo-san is calling on Seishin as we speak, so please, just wait a bit."

When he came into the room, Shinmei was trying to get out of the bed and Miwako was struggling with him to stop him. Miwako looked to Seishin and breathed a sigh of relief. 

"Father, what is wrong?"

"I'm going to, Tokujiro-san's, for a sick visit." Shinmei's words were spoken resolutely. 

"What is this about, so suddenly?"

"It isn't, about anything. He is sick, so I am, going to, see him,"

"It's well and good to pay a get well visit but are you already better?"

It had seemed like he'd had a cold---it really did just seem like a cold---as he'd been coughing hard until just yesterday. He'd had a fever too though not much of one.

"I'm fine," he said while his voice was still weathered as if from coughing. 

"Father. What is this? Tokujirou-san is in poor health.  If you go to see him there while you yourself have a cold, it would not be impossible for it to transfer to Tokujiro-san, and it may be bad for you as well. Can it not wait at least until you have recovered from your cold?"

"It can't. I'm going."

The helplessness in his voice was probably due to the fact that he had already had difficulty with wrods, but none the less his voice was wrought with helplessness. This was the first time he had seen his father with his nerves so driven. Seishin breathed a small sigh.

"Then, I will bring you, so please stay warm. I had just been thinking of going to pay Tokujirou-san a visit myself."

At Seishin's words at last Shinmei's expression calmed and he nodded. With a nod to the bewildered looking Miwako, he had her prepare his wheelchair. 

Shinmei and Tokujirou had had a deep connection since some time back. It didn't particularly seem like intimacy or friendship but there might have been a certain fellowship. Maybe he was therefore so wrought with worry he couldn't stand it. All the same, Seishin couldn't help thinking that it was frustration with his limbs for not allowing him to move freely. 

--But, in truth, it couldn't be denied that the times Shinmei and Tokujirou had met face to face had become fewer and fewer. Tokujirou himself had lost much of his color. The "making a face like it's somebody else's problem" Toshio had spoke about was strikingly obvious. Even though a former friend from old times had come by wheelchair to see him, he neither acted delighted nor troubled to see him. When Seishin had said "Father said he'd wanted to come no matter what," even then Tokujirou only responded with a short "Oh." On the other hand, when Shinmei looked down on Tokujirou's expression, he didn't say anything in particular either. That was why this somehow looked to be a farewell. It was possible his father had realized he was in his final hour and had come to say farewell to him.

"That's enough," Shinmei had said, and so Seishin brought his father to the car and returned briefly alone to Tokujirou's side.

"Tokujirou-san, how would you feel about accepting hospitalization after all?"

When he spoke to him, Tokujirou who had this entire time given nothing but inattentive answers as if uninvolved himself answered with a strangely distinct: "I don't want to."

"However, your state of health is not well. It must be difficult for you to even sip water on your own?"

"I'll pass. I won't be hospitalized. I won't go anywhere. Because I've got to watch over the family altar."

"However,"

"Hospitalization didn't save Setsuko, I've got the altar and work, so I can't leave the house. Please leave me be."

Seishin grimaced. Tokujirou's way of speaking and tone certainly gave the feel of lines being read in monotone. 

"Very well then," Seishin said peering into Tokujirou's expression. "We should likely at least move you to the family altar, then. Setsuko-san and Mikiyasu-kun, wouldn't they surely be happier that way?"

Tokujirou stared dubiously at Seishin.

"You are overseeing the altar, aren't you? Then at least moving you nearer to it would be good."

"Aa... Yeah, it would."

Seishin nodded and called to Yasumori Atsuko who was doing a bit of tidying up. He had her assistance in moving Tokujirou to the heart of it. It was probably due to Atsuko's work that the altar was cleaned and tidy, with fresh flowers blossoming. 

Seishin gently folded his hands and lit incense at the altar. He didn't know if this would have an effect or not but he wrapped up the incense in paper and hid it beneath the pillow and set juzu prayer beads in Tokujirou's hand. In the study that opened to the garden he placed a volume of the Heart Sutra, and at the opening a guardian deity was set in place.

"Please be of strong will. I believe that you must be quite lonely, but you must not become disinterested in and abandon yourself."

Leaving behind Tokujirou who only could and only did nod, he said his goodbyes to Atsuko and returned to the car.  Shinmei was oddly quiet as he waited for Seishin.

"Were Setsuko-san and Mikiyasu-kun both like that?" 

His father stared fixedly at him in the rearview mirror from the backseat. 

"......Yes."

"That, is spreading, through the village?"

"......I believe that it is."

I see, Shinmei murmured. 

"What of it?"

Nothing, Shinmei answered shortly. With a deep nod as if assenting to something, he closed his eyes. 
 

Comments

8D

[(Anonymous)]

My usual opinion on Seishin is him being somehow 'cold hearted' inside. At the very least, at his core is because he gives the sense of being thoroughly detached. He's sensitive and sympathetic, but he's never truly there which made me think whatever he feels regarding others, it could be pretty superficial. So are his emotional bonds with other people. Now though, I'm entertaining the idea that it's perhaps not really the case -- even if it is, at the very least I think he'd never undermined those feelings and/or his bonds with people.

Throughout the chapters he's shown to be very compassionate about how people feel, even if he rarely is for other things. The fact that he's in a sad mood for days for people who died's sake has a good indication that he could feel quite deeply for others' sake. (though you could also argue that his own personal feelings regarding death influence this)

Or you could argue that him being detached means that what he feels isn't just sympathy, but it also includes empathy.

So, Seishin is capable of deep feelings for others' sake. Now, is he capable of forming proper emotional bond with people?

I think he very well can. Now on to the main point: what's the extent of his feelings for Toshio? What does he think about their relationship? What does Toshio truly mean to him?

(I hope you don't mind my bringing up old topic 8D I remembered our prior discussion on this and I'd like to expand on some things. At the very least I want to understand the topic fully and figure out myself how we could move from one point to another. And I also organize my thoughts as I write the comment, so.)

I'm now thinking that, for him, Toshio actually covers a lot of aspect. I've always thought of Seishin as having one foot set in the (outside) world and one foot set in elsewhere place (namely his own world). He loves both places and he'd like to contribute to both. Granted, his bond to the world (Sotoba, humanity, system(s), community, collective values, these rather worldly affairs) isn't a very strong one. However, he does love it. While it's perhaps not all of it, I think he makes the efforts to contribute and link to it through Toshio. Toshio is (quite largely) what tethers the free-spirited Seishin to the world. And in all honesty, it's with Seishin's consent which means Seishin uses Toshio exactly for that reason. Seishin would really like to bond with the world and he does it largely through Toshio and/or his relationship with him.

There are some reasons as to why he chose Toshio in the first place. I think, they'd be 1) Toshio is one of the pillars (technical and symbolic) 2) Toshio is the more 'worldly' party (technical) 3) Toshio is his lifelong friend that he arguably loves the most (emotional). It could very well be a mix of these, and more. Toshio for him covers at least three aspects -- the symbolic, the technical (the worldly) and the emotional. He represents all these aspects regarding the world in Seishin's eyes. I think this is all deliberate and not subconscious.

Toshio is what mainly ties him to the world, so it'll be logical if it also takes him to break that bond. From all three aspects, it'd perhaps be the emotional one. Seishin as a person is, first and foremost governed by moral values. Those moral values are manifestation of his own feelings and I think in practice they will constantly scan through this emotional aspect. Out of all three aspects, the emotional is the least impersonal one and thus it's the one tethered to place using something that's equally not impersonal to Seishin which is his own personal feelings (values). In my head it'd be 'feelings in' and 'feelings out'? (I use lots of tangents here). I think the more Seishin moralizes something, the more he cares about that thing, which is shown by how often he moralizes Toshio when he rarely does other things to that extent.

To him, Toshio doesn't only act as the bond that tethers him to the world. I think he also largely represents the world itself to him, the world that means everything I mentioned above. Basically it'd be everything that's outside his person. Not only is Toshio an embodiment of his connection to them all, Seishin also connects to Toshio like how he connects to the world through Toshio? Not only is Toshio the bridge that connects him to the other land, he's also (technically, symbolically (since Seishin treats everything as symbolism), figuratively) the other land himself.

So I think Toshio means a great deal to Seishin. And now it's come to this: is it possible that when one regards some other specific one this highly it could pass as romantic?

I still cannot exactly deduce this one, but I think if I were to ask people regarding this analysis majority of them would agree that it's quite romantic. Even looking at this makes me think that it's beyond platonic, but I don't know if it could be regarded as outright romantic.

Re: 8D

[mgnsh83]

It's interesting to see this chapter in novel form. More or less follows the manga/anime. I find this analysis interesting and yet am also cramped for time, so I'll have to be briefer here than I would prefer. Nevertheless, I do agree that Seishin, while he can sometimes appear detached and off in his own world, is, as you said, capable of deep feelings for others. I'm not sure I can agree in absolutes with the idea that Seishin's feelings for Toshio are romantic, although they're open enough, in my view, to be seen one way or the other as either romantic or platonic, depending on preferences as well as individual interpretation. A person can love someone more dearly than themselves and still not have romantic desire for them. I also feel that in some ways, Seishin holds Toshio to a standard by virtue of them being friends, and so when Toshio violates Seishin's ideals regarding morality, it's just another straw on the pile of the shiki invading, the village dying, and the events with his mother and father. Yet, of all of these, I feel that the break with Toshio is as important as the death of the village. They're both such a big part of Seishin's persona that to have them gone finally, in a dark way, liberates him into becoming what we see at the end of the story.

Re: 8D

[(Anonymous)]

8D -- There are many readings on what Seishin's feelings for Toshio actually are. Some entertained an idea that he actually quite disliked him, some (myself included) thought that Seishin was quite indifferent about him. While I've found at least two people (Sinnesspiel included) who thought that what Seishin felt for Toshio could be considered romantic without necessarily using shipping goggles. We discussed this certain topic a year ago but I still couldn't exactly figure out why that was. I was curious about what they saw but I didn't, so with this analysis I was trying to figure it out (even if I don't know if I've done a good job at that or not?) Not to say that they had to be absolutely right so I had to follow them no matter what, all in all I was just playing with ideas. 8D

There's also the matter of Seishin being unmarried... and seems to have his life centered around Toshio? Regarding the former, it's in my opinion that he really doesn't want to get married. Marriage is just never in his mind, when a lot of things are. He's a person bound by obligations but this is the only part of those obligations he has never given any thought in any form. I just find it interesting that Toshio, who's harder to move than he is feels pressured enough to get married but here Seishin's able to keep to his personal view and not do as everyone wishes. Well, it's true that this is not all there is to this topic but so far I'm keeping this opinion. And it's also true that his not wanting to get married doesn't only have to do with his harboring 'secret feelings' for Toshio. It doesn't even say something for sure about his sexuality, for that matter. Anyone can be straight and still doesn't want to get married.

I mentioned to you last chapter about how Shiki was also a story about Seishin's separation from the system which was marked by several happenings, with two especially important ones were his turning and Sotoba's death. Now as you said, I'm inclined to agree that Seishin's clash and break with Toshio is as important as these two events. After all, if he didn't clash with Toshio, he'd probably not go to Kanemasa in the first place. Meaning that if he didn't break ties with Toshio in the first place, he wouldn't even be turned.

No matter of what nature his feelings for Toshio are, I think nearly everyone agrees that he holds Toshio to some terribly high standards, which is nothing but Seishin's own ideals. So when Toshio cannot manage to live up to those standards, it probably feels like everything Seishin has known is broken to pieces before him.

Re: 8D

[mgnsh83]

I think I do remember skimming some past posts and replies when I was trying to get caught up to the current chapters. I'm more of the current opinion that there's more of a platonic thing going on between Seishin and Toshio, although if someone views and/or enjoys them as a romantic pairing, I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I can view it as a plausible interpretation as well, moreso than with other pairings people try to say are there while there's overwhelming evidence in the original story to the contrary. There are many types of love and each person experiences each type in a different, individual way.

As far as why Toshio chose to cave to pressure and marry whereas Seishin didn't, I can easily see where Toshio is like Seishin in the way that they both buck tradition in their own way while also conforming to it. Toshio, while he says things that surprise people, still did something traditional. Seishin cultivates a very quiet traditional image while having thoughts and feelings that run counter to it that he's initially afraid to let in. The main difference between the two as far as I can see is that Toshio's family expected him to be 'normal', conform and marry, and since he had nothing really barring him from doing so that would be seen as valid in the eyes of his community/culture, he went through with it. Seishin, as it's discussed in the novel, is seen as 'odd' because of his suicide attempt and the fact he's a writer. IIRC, it was also said that people were wondering to themselves why a man of Seishin's age wasn't married, but didn't want to push the topic or bring it up to him because they were afraid of the impact it would have on someone so 'delicate.' So, while it's likely not the only reason Seishin didn't marry, I'd personally call that as well as the villagers' collective attitude towards him a big contributing factor. People can also have romantic leanings without necessarily wanting sex from the source of their affection, and there are also people regardless of orientation that view marriage as a waste of time, so maybe that's also a point worth considering.

As to the rest, I largely agree with that interpretation.

Re: 8D

[(Anonymous)]

8D -- It'd just sunk in for me that Toshio is, as you said, (much like Seishin) is a man trapped within system/traditions. They'd really like to have their own way but are unable to do that due to many reasons, could be obligations, could be they're unable to look past what's already been established (the 'normal' ways of life, traditions, Sotoba's system), could be because in some ways they fear to follow their own heart because it goes against the system and thus they won't have the system's protection over them. They both despise the system (Toshio hating the name Ozaki and would like for it to just perish already, though he perhaps loves Sotoba as a whole more than Seishin does) but 'love' it anyway because that's all they know. They are perhaps people who cannot really decide about what they wish to do and thus rely a lot on their surroundings to guide them, but this is mainly because they weren't even given any choice since their birth, except for one. Being the only heir to their respective family, the whole system wouldn't have them except as the future pillars of Sotoba.

They actually have a great deal of similarities. Makes me wish they'd be able to bond more over them.

In Seishin's eyes though, I think Toshio's always been a person approved more by the system. No matter how much he makes it seem like he's a bad person for the system, Seishin's able to see how his heart lies in the system more, how more 'normal' he is and how he's able to blend in more. I think this would make Seishin admire him and look up to him but at the same time envy him and perhaps even manage to create a darker part of his heart that actively hates him. A small part of his heart perhaps has even thought this: 'I'm a good follower, but why do people still hate me? Toshio's not a good follower but why does everyone seem to approve of him more?'. Especially when they were younger. Something just crossed my mind that probably one of many reasons Seishin attached himself to Toshio as a kid and even became his breaks, besides to try to control him to closer fit the ideals on his mind, is so that he could be seen as 'the good one' by sticking to a person who seemed to be 'the bad one' and implicitly told people to compare them, all the more if he as the 'good one' had been trying to right the 'bad one'. Someone like Seishin is much more likely to beat himself as soon as the thought even crossed his mind, but I can also imagine this had become some sort of guilty pleasure, especially if it became a habit and one tends to numb their feelings over things they habitually do.

Ah, I think I understand what you said. On top of Seishin already feeling he's different (and has internalized phobia directed at himself) the villagers are also treating him like an oddity, which results in his feeling even more separated from the system and thus not having to conform to it?

Re: 8D

[sinnesspiel]

I would suppose Seishin is able to make connections. Empathy is in essence the capacity to feel for and with another. More than being unable to connect himself with anybody, maybe what we've been sensing as loneliness in him is a part of him he cannot put out to anybody. It's clear there's a part of himself he doesn't understand, a part of him Ozaki is aware of in him that Ozaki recognizes himself as not understanding. This would match the theme of there being many areas in which one is an 'us' or a 'them' depending on the context--the 'us' of the village and the 'them' of outsiders, the 'them' of the village and the 'us' of the pillars, the 'us' of Seishin and Toshio that sets even the other upper ranks of Tamo and the government officials as a 'them', the 'us' of Seishin and Sunako and the 'them' of their respective separate groups, the 'us' that is their private thoughts and sense of duty and justice that can't be yielded to anyone in the separate cases of Toshio and Seishin, and Sunako who doesn't seem to feel as securely 'us' in her own sense of justice after all, feeling like a 'them' to herself or perhaps looking for another to create an 'us' rather an an 'I.'

That's just my take anyway. It's a long way of saying I agree Seishin is able to bond to people and isn't as wholly detached as I presumed from the anime/manga. I also agree that he has a particular 'us' setting with Toshio, and that that is, while the smallest non-self group, the strongest one. Once that's broken, the others are shown to be quite feeble comparatively, and that sense of self is overwhelmingly powerful. I think this plays into the thought of how a group can feel more powerful when large (an entire village), but that once it gets so large it will have outers and inners within it (parisshioners, non-parisshioners, etc.). A border can only stretch so far, but then nobody wants to be alone either.

Re: 8D

[(Anonymous)]

8D -- I think the moment Seishin becomes so effectively detached (from humans) will be when he becomes a Jinrou. Now he still have connections to humans because he's still a human himself (even if it only feels to him like being half a human (one foot set in the human system and the other set elsewhere)), but once these connections are completely broken it'll be too easy for him to be completely indifferent to humans. Perhaps it'll be easier for him to bond with Sunako/fellow Shikis and Jinrous. So perhaps he'll still have the ability to bond but humans are off limits to him.

Seishin isn't that much of a cold fish I also previously thought he was, then.

Now I have to wonder about that moment of Moral Horizon (a marking point that's so symbolic in many sense). I wonder about what Seishin feels at that time? He perhaps also feel he doesn't actually know Toshio. the Toshio he knows has been largely replaced by the ideals he's set in his own mind, which is to say he's been fooling himself all this time, and that the man standing before him is not Toshio -- but it IS the real Toshio (with everything he's capable of doing). The real Toshio is actually so far away, the humanity is actually so far away, the bridge is growing a lot more farther away and distant, and considering Toshio to him is as old as life itself he probably feels like his whole life is a lie. It's probably just dawned on him that 'life' is nothing but scrape of his own imagination.

Harsh, but no one deserves to only be acknowledged as ideals someone imposed on them and not as the individual they actually are.

Which is to say Seishin's probably been treating people like he's been treated, and that he's been denying others what he himself wishes from the others.

(They really are unhealthy as a relationship.)

Re: 8D

[sinnesspiel]

This is just my take and it's not translated yet, but the impression I got is that despite their differences, the two were mutually very aware of how the other was and that difference between them; it had just never particularly mattered or come to a point where they were irreconcilable over it because it was largely irrelevant to anything taking place in their practical lives. Once it came down to differences that determined what actions if any, even with an understanding of another position... They have a very long talk during the moral event horizon scene, in the novel compared to the brief, unspoken confrontation in the manga/anime. I don't think, myself, that either thought their knowledge of the other was a lie.

What I like about them, pair or otherwise, is that they do so wholeheartedly accept the other without losing their sense of self. They don't demonize the 'other' even when othering them. Toshio might demonize a lot of others (I'm not really sure if he does or if he just takes it all as an unfortunate necessity--I lean towards thinking he does, for the record) and Seishin himself certainly does demonize others (humans) at the tail end in his monologue. But not each other. The other might be that boundary, not completely outside. But the boundary's still not inside. The boundary defines the self however, so that matches well with your thinking that Seishin's life has been to an extent defined by Toshio (and others, I think). His self at the end is defined by where he can't accept Toshio's, and many others', way of thinking. They don't think of themselves as evil. He doesn't agree with Sunako on some things, but he can accept her way of thinking. That's because she thinks of herself as evil; she doesn't agree with herself.

It's not fair for me to go on about that without translating it, though. Back to work, back to work...

Re: 8D

[(Anonymous)]

8D -- True enough. My impression when I got to briefly see that chapter was how anticlimactic it was. Nothing like the anime/manga where Seishin is shown to be irrevocably angry. He isn't even half as angry as when he confronts Toshio in the seme chapter. In that seme chapter Seishin is angry because he's so sure of himself. In the moral horizon chapter... not so much. Their long-winded conversation pretty much shows that he's as much as arguing with his own self as he is with Toshio, much like the conversation that takes place after they dig out someone's grave. Perhaps the moral horizon scene is more of a self-discovery than Toshio-discovery. Once more Toshio actually pushes him to face and challenge himself. Interesting.

How far are we from the moral horizon chapter? Cannot wait to analyze it and weave it into larger narrative. Will I be able to keep onto my previous analysis/opinions? Or will I be forced to change and rewrite them to some degree?

Well, to never get to discuss things just because there's no immediate reason to is also not really good, in my opinion. Before they know, the rift between them will grow even larger (Seishin did mention about it in the anime). There's only so much of the 'self' they can show to one another in their internal relationship, while there's so much more to their 'self' than that. It rather seems to me that their 'us' couldn't evolve fast enough to follow their respective 'self', their own 'inner us'. Well, this is only logical. Just like what Seishin had said: in the end, everyone is isolated. It depends on how much of yourself you wish to show other people and to what degree you wish to bond with others over the 'self' that you show to them, though, because there are people out there who are more than happy to 'isolate' their selves by creating a wall between themselves and others: 'I am my own alone, others don't need to know.'

Going by what you said it somehow seems to me that they pretty much decided to stick by one another, come hell or high water. They've probably decided to be friends for life, it's just the world actually got in between them.