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Sinnesspiel ([personal profile] sinnesspiel) wrote2014-01-10 09:38 pm

Shiki Novel Translations 2.4.1

1

It was the morning of September 10th, when the morning examinations had begun and he was just thinking of taking a break that Toshio received the call from the National Hospital in the town of Mizobe.

"Doctor, the phone. It is from the National Hospital's Dr. Taniguchi."

Ritsuko turned the phone over to Toshio who excused himself from his patient to return to the waiting room. There, he took the call.

Taniguchi from the national hospital was an older physician than Toshio. His upperclassman by seven years from the same university, of course they knew each other from the university itself but being the connection between a senior and a junior afforded him certain accommodations. That said, Taniguchi himself wasn't born in Mizobe, nor did he live in the vicinity of Mizobe. Taniguchi came to the national hospital twice a week as a side job to lecturing at the university. He came from the city on an express train for two days a week, then went back.

The national hospital was a hospital large enough to rival the mutual aide hospital of the JA but the truth was that size was all there was to it. The doctors employed there full time were young with no career. They came rushing in from their bases to make a career there in order to then return to their home towns and serve as private physicians. Those who didn't were old fogeys who lost their place to call home to go back to. There were doctors with experience who, while having established suitable social standing in the city, would come in so many times a week for consultation.

"I've switched lines." Toshio took the receiver.

"Ah, Toshio-kun. This is about the patient you had turned over to us the other day, yes?"

Because of the relations between juniors and their upperclassmen, Toshio often relied on Taniguchi in order to turn over obstreperous treatment cases---that is, patients who would require hospitalization for any long period--to the national hospital. If they required surgery, they went there, if they required brain surgery, they'd be there, there were plenty of routes. Toshio himself didn't turn much of a profit from this but in exchange he received information. There was also the benefit of being able to ask about their progression easily.

"Do you mean Yasumori Mikiyasu?"

"Mm, yes. About him, this morning he died of renal failure at 5:16 AM."

Is that so, Toshio murmured. When overseeing him as he was taken away by ambulance, Toshio had resolved within himself that that may have been the last time he saw his childhood friend.

"What was the progression like?"

"When he was carried in, he had quite severe anemia, as you know. I wasn't present so I don't know, but. His creatinine levels were high so we were vigilant regarding renal failure but MODS developed into DIC, resulting in MOF. Do you need detailed progression notes?"

"It may put you through great pains, but by all means, please. Quickly, if you could."

"A thorough student aren't you, as always."

Toshio smiled bitterly. "Mikiyasu is a childhood friend. ---It is a small village."

Ah, said Taniguchi, his voice awkward. "That's, I'm very sorry to hear that. It was a bit of a strange progression, wasn't it? At least from looking at his medical records, I wouldn't think he'd had such severe renal impairment, but. If only I could have seen him when he first came in, but it wasn't my consultation day."

"It is a shame. ---Was it aplastic anemia, or was there a white blood cell disorder?"

"There wasn't, actually."

"None? You are sure?"

"Mm. You said as much. For the record, we ran thorough tests here ourselves, though. It seems it was not aplastic anemia. There was nothing unusual with his bone marrow. He had high neutrophil counts but his white blood cell count and hematopoietic figures weren't abnormal."

"Is that so," Toshio answered while thinking 'I knew it.'

"Will a fax do?"

"It will do nicely."

Toshio conveyed his gratitude to Taniguchi and hung up the phone.

(Toshio-san)

Mikiyasu's voice lingering in his ears sounded naive---he guiltily strove to forget that voice that had been relying on him. There was no use in holding it in his heart forever. This wasn't so special of a tragedy, not compared to what it meant for the village as a whole.

Before notice of Mikiyasu's death came in, he had just received notification from Ishida that a man in Shimo-Sotoba had died. yesterday Seishin had reported that an old woman in Naka-Sotoba died. The day before yesterday Ishida, again, conveyed that an office worker living in Mizuguchi died. At this rate, the situation was quickly becoming more urgent.

(It's contagious.)

There was no proof but he was already certain. The first infected person became the contagion and a secondary infection occurred. Those patients who were the victims of the secondary infection were many. And from those secondary infection patients as a source of contamination came third wave infections. ---This indicated how the situation, the infection was expanding.

(The time span is short...)

Regardless of the fact that it appeared the incubation period was a week to two weeks, the time span in which the infection was expanding was far too short for that. As expected, maybe it wasn't something that spread from person to person. With fleas and ticks as the carriers, it could have broken out in a day or two. But, living in the mountains, it would be difficult to find less air tight houses than most of those in the village. How on earth were they to exterminate the carrier animals?

Toshio felt something akin to a faint chill. Just maybe, this could have been a calamity beyond what Toshio had first imagined as a "worst case scenario."



"Mikiyasu-san died, you say?" At Ritsuko's words, Yasuyo's eyes widened.

"Yes. Just now there was a call from the National Hospital."

Really, said Yasuyo, her hands washing her teacup coming to a stop as she gazed into the kitchen sink.

The kitchen was a remnant of the times when they took in-patients. They used to prepare meals here for in-patients, and in the dinning room near by staff could also eat. That dinning room was now the break room. In one enclosure was a break room, a washroom for kitchen staff that they no longer had, but its sofa had become a space for napping.

From that point on the kitchen may have gone unused but even now it was maintained as if it were used, and Ritsuko at times used it to heat up lunch or even to do light cooking. There was a separate kitchenette for preparing tea but when taking breaks it was more convenient to use the kitchen. And the kitchenette was narrow, so when it came time to clean up afterwards it was more common for everyone to make use of the kitchen at once.

Yasuyo was caught in her thoughts, her hands stopping, but her face suddenly lifted as if her breath were cut short, wiping at her hands.

"RIcchan, sorry, but I'll leave this to you. I'm going to talk to the doctor."

"Yasuyo-san."

"It'll just be a bit, as expected we can't not ask the doctor about the status of thing. It looks like the part timers are uneasy about it too, and all."

Her intent stated, Yasuyo stepped out of the kitchen. It wasn't long after that she returned.

"Ricchan, do you have plans this afternoon?"

"No."

"Then, when work is finished, could you stay behind, I wonder? We're holding a little meeting. For lunch it sounds like the doctor will prepare lunches for it."

Yes ma'am, Ritsuko answered while thinking 'at last.' Toshio would have an explanation. She had a feeling she wanted to hear it and didn't want to hear it. If she heard it, it would be confirmed, she felt. Ritsuko and the others imagining something and Toshio as a doctor declaring it were different matters entirely.

Nervously finishing the cleaning, she returned to work. Each other staff member she saw seemed to have the same nervousness but nobody said a word. Caught up in the strange flowing feel of tension, even as noon came the flow of patients didn't stop. Lately, it had become customary for their lunch hour to be pushed back. There were many patients. It didn't seem like there were many who seemed especially sick. They had the impression that patients were coming in with symptoms that they wouldn't usually come into the hospital over. Those patients in particular would talk with Toshio for a long time, dragging out medical examination hours.

(We're in suspense...)

That's what Ritsuko thought. The patients--the villagers were, whether conscious of the increasing number of deaths or not, vaguely awayer that something was strange, that their health and very lives could suffer unusually easily. That was likely a disease spreading throughout the villagers. And that was surely from now on going to compound beyond the level it was at even now.

Taking lunch in shifts, Ritsuko handled the patients. The last patient's examination ended past two o'clock. Finishing up cleaning afterwards, she went towards the break room, where all staff members were already assembled.

"Ricchan's the last?" Toshio smiled before a stack of documents piled on the table. "Close the door and have a seat."

His tone was the same as always. Taking some relief in that, Ritsuko closed the door and sat in the empty seat. In the break room was the cool air of the air conditioner, and in that air the more chilling draft of their nervousness.

"You might already know this but today the contractor's Mikiyasu died," Toshio began his talk, looking towards Mutou and Towada. "This might be a hard conversation for Mutou-san and you to follow but if there's anything unclear, just ask. And be patient."

Mutou and Towada nodded.

"With Mikiyasu dead, that makes the death toll since August nineteen people."

That hit like a bomb. Ritsuko's back muscled tensed. The voices saying 'that many' were multiple, and Ritsuko may have unconsciously gave voice to such herself.

"There have been that many, actually. Amongst them are ones who didn't have anything to do with us, who collapsed in Mizobe and were taken to the hospital there, or who were taken off to there. Anyways, the government office has been sending in death certificates, and counting them up, Mikiyasu is the nineteenth. --It's an abnormal situation."

Ritsuko lightly swallowed her breath.

"And Mikiyasu was, following Nao-san and Susumu-kun, the third death at the contractors. It's possible everyone here's been faintly aware of it but there's the possibility that it's an epidemic."

"Doctor, are you sure?" Mutou leaned forward.

"I'm sure people are dead. And it's clear there're excessive deaths, and an increasing trend at that. I think that we can be pretty certain in thinking that it's an epidemic."

Saying that, Toshio roughly explained how things had progressed. Concretely, he gave the names of the dead and their causes of death.

"By the way, the result of the blood tests on the contractor's Nao-san and Mikiyasu were both negative for any epidemics. Based on the test results, the two of them were indeed not infected with any known epidemic. I requested a culture test too but I don't have all of those results yet. Culture tests take time. I think that it'll be a little longer until the cultures come back but if nothing else based on what we know at this time, the two of them weren't carrying any germs that would cause them to suddenly lose their lives. Murasako Mieko-san was the same. The results that came back from the police were completely clean."

Uhm, Towada spoke up. "Even though the results haven't come in, can you declare that it isn't an epidemic? I thought that the doctor had just said that it was an epidemic, but."

"Mm, it comes down to this. ---The cause of an epidemic is a pathogenic microbe. When those microbes ravage a body, it's called an infection. All of them are indeed contagious, epi for spread demic for among the people, but among those infections, the one that inflict grave damages to the human body, the ones that have such an effect that society can't afford to disregard them are called epidemics. Amongst all types of infections are ones we're especially vigilant against called epidemics. ---Are you following this so far?"

"Ah.... yes."

"So an epidemic is strictly those infections that have been labeled "epidemics." Right now, the thing that's spreading through the village doesn't correspond to any of those predefined epidemics. Based on the symptoms as well as the test results, it's cleared from being any of them. So it's not an epidemic but based on the observations of the increasing numbers of patients, it's clearly contagious. And the results are grave, and the number of patients is high. It's not an existing epidemic but it's clearly an infection disastrous to society. As far as its ability to influence people and society, I think it'd be appropriate to call it an epidemic."

"Ah, I understand."

Toshio nodded,

"It's not an existing epidemic, and the possibility, however small, that it's not an infection, still remains. It's possible to think that it's some kind of poison or an allergic reaction to something. Anyway, it'd be accurate to say we still don't know what's happening. We don't know the cause of the disease, or how it spreads."

Yasuyo raised her hand.

"Is there the possibility that it's a new type of epidemic?"

"The possibility that it's a new kind, of course, exists."

"What will we do about this from now on?" Mutou said, sounding lost.

"If only we know, huh? At any rate, until we know the cause of the chain of deaths, our hands and feet are tied. Not only can't we treat or prevent it, we can't ask the administration for assistance."

"There's no way to have the administration investigate it?"

"I plan to do that. That said, I have to put together the data and the related materials. I've got to do that and make sure to have the administration see the need to investigate it. All of this, the Health Department's Ishida-san is currently investigating." Toshio said, with a bitter smile. "If it's an existing epidemic or a rogue strain, it'll be fast work. We haven't gotten any results of that nature yet, so we have to get together the materials with more explanatory power. Regardless of everything, we don't have any solid proof that it's contagious. It'd be best to think of this as something that's going to take time."

"The administration is slow to do anything at times like this, aren't they? If you don't pester them with quite a bit of proof, then...." Mutou breathed a deep sigh. Everyone present sighed as well with agreement.

"What we know right now is that it seems to start with anemia. At least, Shimizu Megumi-chan, the Yasumori's Nao-san, and Mikiyasu, that's three people, didn't have anything you could point to as wrong with them besides anemia. Anemeia occurs, so their complexion is poor, they feel washed out and have no appetite. The people around them think the summer heat is getting to them, or that it's a cold, and it's easy to overlook."

"What is the cause of the anemia?" Kiyomi asked, causing Toshio to shake his head.

"That I don't know. Looking at the test results, it's normocytic normochromic anemia. At least we know it isn't iron deficiency anemia or pernicious anemia. It doesn't seem like it's a blood formation disorder. The National Hospital tested Mikiyasu but they said to me that he probably didn't have aplastic anemia or leukemia. Looking at the rest results, you would think it was anemia coming from external bleeding or hemolysis but there're no signs of internal bleeding that could be the cause of the anemia."

Shimoyama nodded. "We used a CT to search here and there for that. ---That's right, there is no internal bleeding. At least, there wasn't for Yasumori-san's wife."

Toshio nodded.

"In cases where it's a small continuous bleed, X-rays or ultrasonic rays may miss the bleeding spot but, in this case, I don't think that's it. If nothing else, since it suddenly gets so much worse and all. Thinking of the situation up until now, it call comes to an end within a few days. The progression is about that fast."

"Then, what about hemolysis?" Yasuyo asked.

"Going by the process of elimination, the only thing left is hemolysis, but. In cases of hemolysis, bilirubin and LDH levels should be higher. Yet in the initial stages, that doesn't show up. Coombs tests come up negative too, so if nothing else it's certain not to be hemolysis from an autoimmune disease."

"So there's no hemolysis that doesn't raise that---whatever it was called?" Mutou said.

"It's not that there isn't. There's intravascular hemolysis and extravascular hemolysis but in the case of intervascular hemolysis, serum bilirubin levels and LHD levels don't raise. In those cases, hemoglobin would be in the blood plasma or there would be hemoglobinuria but that wasn't the case in Nao-san or Mikiyasu. On the other hand, in the case of extravascular hemolysis, it's common for biliruin and LDH levels to rise but it seems that isn't certain to hapen."

Mutou groaned, sounding terribly confused.

"Anyway, I think that the odds of hemolysis are high. And not something congenital, it's acquired. It's not something that effects immunity, but that raises the sensitivity of the complement system, or possibly something that causes red blood cells to be crushed, or it may be some drug or poison."

"Poison, you say?" Yasuyo said, Toshio nodding.

"Spider or snake venom, or even bee venom can cause hemolysis it seems. If it's a snake or a bee, the patient or their families would probably remember being bitten or stabbed but there's the possibility it was a spider or another insect of some sort whose poison is causing the hemolysis. --Then there's drugs. Sulfa drugs or salicytic acid, or lead or arsenic could also cause hemolysis. In that case, the soil, the water, or possibly the food could be contaminated but based on the patients' behavior, this is a very low possibility, I think."

"What about existing epidemics?"

"It's modeled like malaria but it's probably not malaria. There's no high fever characteristic of malaria. We could think of it as a rogue strain of it but I'd think that tests for malaria would pick up on a rogue strain of it, too."

"The patients who die are mostly doing so in the middle of the night, aren't they. The notifications come in first thing in the morning, don't they?" Kiyomi said. "It isn't PNH?"

"I think we could suspect that too."

PNH, Mutou mumbled, to which Yasuyo answered.

"Paroxysmal Nocturnal Hemoglobinuria, possibly. But, it's written in the books that PNH progresses slowly. Could it be a more vicious type of that, I wonder?"

Kiyomi nodded. "With PNH, pancytopenia occurs. That said, Nao-san had lowered coutns of all blood cell types didn't she? Because of that, she became more prone to infection, and with a tendency to hemorrhage, a blood clot could form. Nao-san had heart failure, didn't she? A pulmonary edema came from that."

"I wonder if it was heart failure from a blood clot?"

"That is a possibility, isn't it? Also, it was written in the books that it could lead to death by renal failure too, but. Gotouda Fuki-san was renal failure, wasn't she!"

Toshio smiled wryly. "You've really done your homework. I'm in awe."


Yasuyo and Kiyomi's voices raised in a laugh. They both pointed their fingers at each other, saying they didn't feel like doing it but the other kept pushing it, blaming it on each other. Toshio laughed too,

"The contractor's Mikiyasu died of renal failure too. When I first had him taken away to the hospital, his BUN levels were elevated. His creatinine levels were within normal ranges so at first the doctors thought that he was dehydrated due to the heat but later he had bloody urine and obvious signs of renal failure. The doctors tried to treat that but in the end renal failure lead to DIC occuring and things suddenly turned for the worst and he died."

What is DIC Towada asked Satoko. As Satoko seemed uninterested in answering, Kiyomi answered.

"Disseminated intravascular coagulation syndrome. In short, abnormalities in how the blood coagulates."

"Our nurses are efficient," Toshio laughed. "But, while the rest results show the cause of death was uremia, it wasn't just his kidneys, his lungs and liver were malfunctioning too. At first it was respiratory failure that was occurring. At the end he contracted pneumonia, and his liver functioning fell drastically. He died of uremia so on the surface it looks like just renal failure but if he died because he couldn't breathe, it would have probably said lung failure."

"Multiple organ failure---MOF, then. Or these days, they call it, what, MODS?"

Kiyomi asked, to which Yasuyo nodded.

"At any rate, it looks like the whole body just starts falling apart. The first characteristic symptom is anemia, then it worsens steadily into MOF. The problem becomes how to defer it." Yasuyo spoke, looking to Toshio. "If we don't do something within three days, it becomes unmanageable doesn't it? Without the time to investigate what's happening, there's no time to search for a treatment. ....This is very serious, this matter."

"What's the route of infection?" Kiyomi asked, to which Toshio shook his head.

"We don't really know. I had Seishin look into the connections between the patients but no matter how you think about it, there are patients without any direct contact."

"It's hard to think of it as a direct infection, in other words. At Shimizu-san's place, the only one to be hit was Megumi-chan, and all. At the Maruyasu Sawmill, it was just Giichi-san, wasn't it? At Maruyasu, Giichi-san was bed ridden, with the family even tending to his bedpans, so it would seem like it would transfer directly to the family, and yet."

"That goes for us too, doesn't it?" said Yasuyo, teasingly. "We've gone out as nurses amongst them after all. Like this, we're lined up at the goose's neck for the patients, so it can't be a direct infection can it? It's likely not a droplet infection either. Though it seems like it would spread by blood. We might use gloves, but I can't imagine the family would."

"If that were the case, the Maruyasu family would obviously be hit a lot harder, wouldn't it! Since that's not the case, doesn't that mean that it doesn't spread through the blood?"

"Then, an intermediate carrier animal? Why, that really will be a hassle!"

"If it's an intermediary animal, wouldn't there be more of a concentration of where the victims are? It feels like they've come from all over the village, doesn't it? Could it be a matter of the ratio of outbreaks? Even if you're infected, the rate of outbreak could be low, don't you suppose? Whether it spreads to the family or doesn't spread to the family;could it be a matter of constitution?"

"That's true..."

"Family it spreads to and family it doesn't, huh..." Toshio said to himself. "Well, even if we talk about it here, nothing's going to happen. Anyway, we need to gather more medical cases, for now."

"That we do."

"Right now I'm suspecting carrier animals. That seems to be the highest likelihood. It's just, looking at the most recent patients, patients coming from the same concentrated families are rare. The Gotouda-san's place and the contractor's cases are the exceptions. It seems like the infection rate, or possibly the outbreak rate isn't too high, you could probably say. That said, don't get too comfortable. Anyway, be sure to wash your hands, wear gloves, and be thorough with things like that."

"And to also be careful with handling medical waste, too." Kiyomi said, to which Toshio nodded.

"I think everyone else is worried too but if we take care I think there's the chance we can protect against it. We have to protect ourselves too, and to make sure we don't become a source of contamination, I'd like everyone to take care."

At Toshio's words, everyone nodded.

"And also, don't spread this out. We don't know a single thing for sure yet, after all. There's no point in inciting a useless panic. Ishida-san and me are taking the necessary measures to keep it quiet."

To this, too, everyone nodded.


8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-11 05:30 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, new info that is. Does that mean that Toshio's university is located in Mizobe? I've always thought that Toshio went to uni much farther than that, so if that's true it's kinda surprising. Or did I interpreted it wrong?

I also have imagined that Seishin went to uni not too far from Sotoba, perhaps Mizobe -- Toshio is more likely to go to uni farther than Seishin, so if Toshio's uni is actually located in Mizobe or its neighbor cities/towns, that means their unis weren't too far apart. Med students are hella busy, and Toshio was a student dedicated to his studies -- but if it's true that they weren't too far apart actually, I think they met more often/slightly more often than what we imagined before throughout uni. Because their unis aren't too far from Sotoba, they might returned home more frequently too.

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-11 06:01 am (UTC)(link)
yes, that 'while' part was what got me into that conclusion; so we're back to square one, I figure. Feeling kinda disappointed :p express train? That sounds far. How far do you think it is from Sotoba? This will make a good reference.

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-12 04:04 am (UTC)(link)
That 'while' part can mean two things, but it's rather ambiguous and thus confusing. Translating is a very difficult job I figure, because you have to be fluent in two languages at once; the language of the text in which to be translated, and the language the text to be translated into. Converting one language into another with all its contextual meanings isn't easy, that's why translating takes time. I'm deeply grateful of what you've done. Thank youuu very much really!!

I imagine Toshio as a person who loves someone but doesn't really like to show it through actions. He may also be a person who flirts without actually putting his heart into it, when he decides to flirt that is (which is not often I figure - he doesn't strike me as a person who likes to flirt) (inspired by him flirting with Chizuru, though that may be a different thing because there's hidden motive. These are only what-if scenarios)

That being said, considering 2.2.6, I can now guess about what happened when Toshio found out about Seishin's suicide attempt. There might be utter disbelief, anger, on one side he wanted to punch the shit out of Seishin for his stupidity, but on one side there's a feeling of helplessness -- a sort of feeling like he's scared, because Seishin felt even farther. (based upon my guess that Toshio actually understands and gets Seishin quite a lot) There's no way Seishin would tell Toshio so I guess he'd have to find out on his own -- whether from seeing the scar on Seishin's hand or from all the gossiping, or from Seishin's parents -- which added into all the anger. Another fic prompt and apparently too much laziness. This one is a bit tricky tho and I have to do a bit of research beforehand.

What's your opinion on this particular matter?

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-12 12:04 pm (UTC)(link)
You mean, from Toshio's perspective it'll be that he's all quiet outside but he hides all his feelings inside? Whatever they are. Hmm, I can see this too. Or Toshio may just take the same route like other people do; leaving Seishin alone to 'keep him calm'. I don't know whether this is the best thing to do or not (I have to do some research for this whole stuff) but Toshio himself is no psychiatrist, even if he's learned some psychiatry stuffs, so he may not know much about this stuff -- which causes him to not always make the best decisions.


by the way, I'd like you to translate this certain part of book 2; I'm going to paste many paragraphs at once because I figure that'll help you to get the contextual meaning right, though I'm specifically asking for the Seishin related sentences :p This is from the start of Toshio's part of the chapter:
敏夫はベッドの中で転々と寝返りを打っていた。焦りが大きい。広沢たちを説得できなかった。戦略を間違えたのかもしれない。かえって広沢のような理性的な者ほど、現実を直視することが難しいのかも。あるいは大川や――そう、母親の孝江のような、最初から予断を抱きやすい者のほうが煽るには良かったのかもしれない。
(これから……どうする)
 たぶん時間は残されていない。ひょっとしたら、来年には村はもう存在しないのかもしれなかった。年の瀬を区切りに、さまざまな事務手続きが一旦、締められる。それ以前にそれを改竄し、整合させられるようにしておかないと、みすみす齟齬を外部に対して露呈してしまう。どんなに長くても来年の三月。それ以後、村はたぶん存在しなくなる。
 急がなければ、と思う一方で、倦怠感が押し寄せてくる。あれほど理を説いたのに、理解を得られなかったことが敏夫を萎えさせていた。愚か者と呼ばれ、気違い沙汰だと言われたほうがましだった。あんなふうに同情めいて宥められるなんて。
 軽く呻いて反転したとき、闇の中でドアが開く音がした。一瞬、静信かとも思ったが、そうでないことも理解していた。静信だけはあり得ないし、さすがの静信も勝手に部屋の中に忍び込んできたりはしない。だとすれば、こんな夜に訪ねてくる者など限られている。
 敏夫は跳ね起きた。ベッドに近寄ってこようとしていた人影が、驚いたように後退った。
「……起きていたの?」
 とっさに手を伸ばして枕許のスタンドを点ける。明かりを浴びて浮かび上がった女の顔には見覚えがなかった。
「……誰だ」
「お茶をいただきに来たの。そう誘ってくださったんでしょう?」
 女は笑う。辰巳だ、と敏夫は思った。確かに敏夫は、かつて一度だけ辰巳に会ったとき、そう言った覚えがある。
「時間ってものを考えて欲しいんだがね。――どうやって入り込んできたんだ」
 女は鍵の束を示した。
「奥様が合い鍵を作らせてくれたの」
「……なるほどな。あんたは桐敷の奥さんかね」

I think that's something along the line of 'instantly, Toshio thought of Seishin, but he knows that it's likely not. Seishin isn't the type to come sneaking into someone's room like that.' Not sure about the last part... something about Seishin only visits Toshio at night?

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-13 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
So that's what the 'limit' part means! I was completely wrong apparently. I'm gonna ask more when I got home, about the 'they're collaborators!' part.

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-13 11:43 am (UTC)(link)
I also think of it as a mix of 'Seishin is too polite for sneaking into someone's room unanounced' and 'well we're kinda fighting now so it couldn't be Seishin even if he's the most likely to visit me at this hour'

From how it looks like, I think even Toshio doesn't mean to fight with Seishin even if they just had a major disagreement, even if Toshio was the one to push Seishin away (at the moment of Moral Horizon). Seishin doesn't seem to me as the one intending to fight as well, he just left Toshio alone because Toshio told him to go back home. It seems to me that Toshio only begins to realize that Seishin's sort of 'left' when he knows that Seishin's surrendered himself to the Kanemasa, and only fully begin to consider the idea that Seishin's actually opposed him around the 'they're collaborators!' part I figure. From how it looks like he's being kinda slow, it rather shows his psyche which expects Seishin to always be there on his side, active or passive supporter. Even if there are occasions when he doesn't support Toshio, he expects Seishin to just stay on neutral ground, being a rather passive person he is. He's never imagined that they'll stand before one another as actual enemies before. That's how people are about their best friends I figure.

Re: 8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-15 03:26 pm (UTC)(link)
8D -- riight so this is the part! That said, I don't really think Toshio is actually thinking about Seishin in particular. I think Toshio indeed shows some sort of hesitancy, though that may be because collaborators are still human. (uhm I'm trying to be objective here haha)

「でも」と、大川は一成らを身体で遮るようにして顔を寄せてくる。「桐敷の旦那みたいな例もあるじゃないですかい」
「協力者か?」
 大川は頷く。確かにそうだ。協力者が正志郎一人とは限らない。村の中からも協力者が出ていておかしくはないだろう。そう――少なくとも一人、寝返ったかもしれない者がいることを、敏夫は知っていた。
「……協力者だろうと、人間なら殺すわけにはいかんだろう」
「そうですかね」
「そりゃあ、殺人だ」
 ふむ、と大川は頷いて顔を離したが、納得したようには見えなかった。敏夫は半ば眠気で朦朧とした頭で思う。この混乱の中、死んでしまえば屍鬼も人も違いなど分からない。ましてや人狼も傀儡も協力者も、区別する方法などないに等しい。不審な行動を取った者は片づけてしまったほうが話は早い。それを咎める方法もないだろう。こいつなら、やるかもしれない……。
 敏夫は半ば目を閉じた。「大将」という声が聞こえた。
「松――お前、逃げ出したんじゃなかったのか」
 敏夫は薄目を開けた。大川が振り返った先に、松村が見えた。社務所の中に入ってきて、こちらへとやってくる。
「へえ。こいつは驚いた。お前みたいな小心者が逃げも隠れもせずにやってくるとはよ」
 はあ、と松村は頷く。寒いのか、懐に両手を突っこんでいた。松村の暗い顔を見て、敏夫は脳裏の片隅で、どこかで見た顔だな、と思った。
(どこかで見たも何もない……)
 大川酒店の松村だ。敏夫も顔見知りで……。
 松村は近づいてくる。敏夫は跳ね起き、濡れ縁から外へと転がり落ちた。
「大川さん、気をつけろ!」
 え、と大川が振り返る。松村が懐から拳銃を出した。例のやつだ、と身を伏せながら敏夫は思った。夏からこちら、嫌というほど見た。発症した顔だ。
 軽い銃声がした。立て続けに数発。人の悲鳴と怒鳴り声、入り乱れる足音。敏夫はそろそろと身を起こす。一成が倒れ、定文は唖然と立ち竦んでいた。松村は大川に組み敷かれている。弱々しくその場を逃げ出そうとしていた。敏夫は立ち上がる。大川がじっと敏夫を見た。
「こりゃあ、いったい」
 駆け寄ってきた男に、大川は外に引きずり出せ、杭を持ってこい、と言う。
「しかし、大川さん」
 大川は敏夫に意思をこめた視線を寄越し、そして男のほうを振り返った。
「兼正の旦那と同じだよ。協力者だ」
 やはり、そういうことになったから、と敏夫は思ったが、異論は唱えなかった。黙って安森一成へと歩み寄る。下腹部に一発、そして――左目に一発。もちろん息はしていなかった。

8D

(Anonymous) 2014-01-20 12:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, so that 'he knows that at least one person has switched sides' part actually points to Seishin specifically? I thought that was Toshio thinking about the villagers generally. But yeah, it does make more sense to me if he actually thinks specifically about Seishin. After all I cannot think of another person who was actively on his side before switching sides afterwards aside from Seishin.

Hmm, I can get that as well. Even when Toshio knows that Seishin's gone to Kanemasa, even after all Chizuru has said to him, a part of him still has certain faith on Seishin, at least that's how it seems to me...

It rather amazes me that even when he spots Seishin on that car's driver's seat, with him purposely colliding with Toshio and co's pickup and knocking them down, Toshio still doesn't turn all pissed at Seishin. He still shows some attachment towards him even. It's true that what he thinks is about 'traitors will be judged and I can't do a thing about it/that's to be expected' which seems a bit cold maybe, but I believe that's not all. As I've learned that Toshio --> Seishin's side of things is never about cold feelings. Even at the end of his arc, he thinks about Seishin. I think even if Toshio still supposes that Seishin will not completely turn the other side, at the same time a part of him has accepted the idea that Seishin actually does -- without actually begrudging him for it, or at least he begrudges him less than what it initially looks like. Toshio --> Seishin to me is sort of about 'I'm gonna keep him with me for as long as I can manage but when he wishes to break free well I'll let him, after all he's his own person first and foremost' because I figure he has this mindset, it'll also make it easier for him to not begrudge him.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-01-14 04:35 am (UTC)(link)
I really like the chapters where they're guessing all the things it could be! It gives me that kind of paranoid, "look over your shoulder it could be anywhere" feeling. Especially since diseases are so intangible, you can't really keep them in sight; the scariest enemy is the one you don't see.

I always wondered about the patients that went to other hospitals; Mikiyasu's not the only one right? But I'm glad Ono followed up on Mikiyasu because I was wondering what was up with him. He was still up and about when Toshio noticed his symptoms, so I would guess he's about at the same stage as Setsuko would be later. But Setsuko got better after being protected by Toshio and Seishin from the Shiki, so I would have thought that Mikiyasu would have gotten better too after being in a hospital in a different town. And he's not the only one too. I wonder if any of them got transported to a bigger city hospital and actually got better? It seems kind of hard to believe that there weren't, kind of like it's hard to believe that none of the shiki escaped at the end (because they literally would have just had to run off into the woods). But since the Shiki also go hunting into big cities, maybe it's not so hard for them to seek out the hospitals where their victims are and finish them off.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-01-15 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Is that in the next chapter (which I haven't finished reading yet)? Well since I don't know yet, I am at liberty to construct fan theories. Such as Tatsumi dressing up as a nurse and infiltrating the Mizobe hospital from within. Ohh, that actually brings another question to mind: can Shiki enter public buildings? Like the Sotoba PUBLIC Library (if it's called that) do they still need an invitation? Or a store? Would they get barred from going shopping at like, Target?

As good as the anime is, it does leave plotholes! It's an awesome feeling when a puzzle piece just falls into place. I'm getting more and more interested in learning about what the Shiki are doing; we know all of this about the village, but I also want to know how the other side is organized and such. I guess we'll see that as more people 'turn'.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-01-19 12:02 am (UTC)(link)
I'd say they can probably just go into the store area. I'm thinking of the one time where the librarian who went after Masao got an invitation to Masao's house, which is also the Murasako Rice shop.

Speaking of the church, the Shiki are repelled by holy objects but they still got inside Seishin's Buddhist temple. When Seishin's father invited the Shiki in, I kind of thought that they wouldn't be able to because although they got an invite, it's still a holy building (unless they don't live in the temple?) Or it's possible that they can if they really resist the pain, kind of like how Sunako manages to hold and read the Bible although it presumably causes her agony.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-01-21 03:18 am (UTC)(link)
I got the Shiki DVD, and it came with a some art that had Sunako standing in a library holding the Bible. I'll see if I can find it somewhere, but it's a really cool piece that's black and white and creepy-looking. All of the books are labeled too. I think there's a part in the manga where somebody says something like "the Shiki can resist the fear of holy items up to a point, which is how Sunako can hold and read the Bible"?

Were there holy objects in the tunnel? I thought they were just scared because the tunnel got too narrow to squeeze through.

I guess this is a good example of how the novel is interesting even if we've already seen the animanga, because there's still stuff left to find out! And even then, it would take way more than 2 novels to cover all of the possible plotholes, so there's still room to muse on it. I also like some things left up to the imagination; building headcanons is a whole journey in of itself.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-01-23 12:32 am (UTC)(link)
I'm wondering if that's her library at Kanemasa, or if it's possibly the collection that was in the warehouse where her parents hid her? I like that the books are more of the kind that can teach you about the world around you, rather than the typical vampire classics like Dracula or 19th century romances; it shows that she's not merely an archetype.
Yeah I forgot about that part of Salem's Lot! I think there's a part there when the head vamp convinces a priest that his holy items hold no meaning...and then breaks the cross.
I wonder why Ono didn't pursue this further? It could've made some cool plot twists!

Ohh, I thought you meant that the tunnel has holy objects stored down there or something, I was like...how did I miss that?!
It was probably a chance for Ozaki to look badass. "There's nothing to fear but fear itself."

(Anonymous) 2014-01-26 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess she might not much like vampire stories if they're no longer escapism or worse are now insulting. Vampires haven't been good guys in fiction until modern days. She doesn't seem to like being called a vampire, but then she's happy to call Tatsumi and company werewolves based on them being common in werewolf stories, isn't she? In the two vampire canons I know of (but haven't personally read--Twilight and Parasol Protectorate, a popular series with my RP group) vampires and werewolves are enemies, as far as I've been told.

I suspect Ono didn't go for symbols only mattering when you believe in them since a major theme for Seishin's arc is the type of 'faith' that's considerably more personal and thus less based on rituals and symbols. Too much focus on symbols can undermine that, while just a little bit of it focuses on how ostracized the Shiki feel by it being excluded from or running counter to the natural order. They can't go along with the ordered faiths that hold societies together any more than Seishin can (for personal reasons on his part).

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-02-02 04:28 am (UTC)(link)
Interestingly enough, in Dracula--although it's not the first vampire story, but it definitely was the one that popularized the idea of the charming vampire--the titular character is in cahoots with wolves (although they aren't werewolves...as far as I know. The author never said they weren't...!) At the beginning when Harker is in the carriage on the way to Castle Dracula, his carriage becomes surrounded by wolves, and also when he tries to leave he's blocked by wolves. Also there's one part where he sees a woman come up to the castle asking for her child back, and the Count kinda summons the wolves and they show up and eat her. It's been a while since I read it the last time, but there are a few other mentions of wolves being on Dracula's side. I don't even know where the popular werewolves vs. vampire thing came from..
Isn't there a scene in Shiki where they mention werewolves as the servants of vampires in classical literature?
Then is there a hidden meaning behind her calling Tatsumi a werewolf? If you go by the servant angle, she probably just means to say that he's like a servant or a pet. But if she considers them enemies, then you could read into it like she thinks herself pretty high and mighty for taming one.

I don't mind not having symbolism in Shiki, or really overt symbolism at least. If I try, I can come up with some, like pine trees standing for death or something, buuut it's not that hard because that's what Seishin's essay is all about.
I haven't thought about the reason that Seishin favors the Shiki being faith, but that's pretty profound and would make a lot of sense! He and Sunako are both 'abandoned by God', and during all of the deaths that happen, I bet he witnessed prayers and had to perform them countless times. Each time he probably felt like he was out of touch and it was just a ritual to him. So the epidemic also helped him come to that realization, about feeling apart from the villagers who hold onto religion in the face of all the deaths, unlike him who loses faith in it.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-02-05 03:18 am (UTC)(link)

Dracula's a pretty interesting read; it's written like a compilation of diaries and journals and letters of the main characters, that tell the story. This is helpful in letting the reader know everyone's point of view, and also to make sure that every event is covered by someone. It's written eloquently, like most 19th century works of literature...compared to it, Shiki is a light novel! I wouldn't say it's great though, just pretty good. I don't wanna be a Vampire Hipster and be like "psh, I only read the /original/ vampire lore"; well okay, a) if you want to read only original vampire lore, you have to look at some ancient Slavic texts, like Bram Stoker did not invent vampires and b) older doesn't necessarily mean better. I don't really like the contemporary YA paranormal fiction but I'm sure there's some good ones out there somewhere. I'm thinking Sunako would be more of a Dracula or an Anne Rice reader (and actually, if she really found out that she was a vampire by reading, she could have actually read some aforementioned Slavic texts). She wouldn't approve of fetishizing vampirism, so she's not under any illusions about herself, but she does accept what she is. I wonder what life (well, undeath) would be like for a Shiki who had read the YA paranormal romances in life. They would probably be disillusioned and cry.

I'm really wondering what the Ohtsukas' new religion is! Yeah though, the Ohtsuka case made Seishin gain a lot of respect in my eyes. I think you can tie it to his hatred of the village. What he's saying is that it doesn't matter what your religion is, as long as you stick to your beliefs...which isn't what the general populace of Sotoba's about after all. Like any religious group, they (well, some) can only accept their own religion as the truth. And then if they see other people not believing in (or in their eyes, denying) 'the truth', then those people would seem stupid to them. If I had my way and an unlimited budget, I would finance another Shiki series where none of the novel bits are missing. It would have to run well over one season, though, and its length will be on par with Bleach, only better. But then how do you really portray the philosophical bits visually? If it was just Seishin's face for 10 minutes with the voice actor narrating his thoughts, that would bore a lot of people away. Perhaps they decided that the alternative religion/martyr path was too difficult to portray. That's also why they probably shifted the focus to Natsuno, because he's easier to portray.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-02-14 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
I know exactly nothing about Anne Rice works either. But it's true that vampires always represented lust and sins that humans find hard to overcome. By abandoning humanity and being 'abandoned by God' as Sunako put it, they're also abandoning the morals that govern the world (morals that were even more important in the 19th century when vampire fiction was really starting to roll) and by preying on humans, they bring down their morals too. In Dracula at least, the female vampire Lucy preyed on young men by playing on their suppressed lusts, and on young children by corrupting their innocence. These elements of corruption and loss of innocence seem to be abandoned in favor of wangst and wimpiness these days. Also, there's a scene in Dracula when the Count takes the blood of a young woman and it's obviously supposed to remind the reader of a rape scene...

I really dislike Sunako too. I hate her attitude of dramatically 'figuring out just what I've become' and, convinced that she's abandoned by God and can't do anything about it, continues to use her position to wreak havoc and be a pretentious little twat. But I always saw her as kind of accepting that she's a beast that needs to hunt humans--cause she's not one of them anymore (which is a fact that's really highlighted in older vampire works, that they're not human now) and so she does whatever she wants. Theeeen, she whines that God doesn't forgive her...but would God forgive a human that committed the same crimes as she did? If she's 'only trying to survive', who forced her to gather up the Kirishiki cult and then use said cult to create an undead village just so she can be herself? Screw you, Sunako!

I saw the monologues too, but I haven't watched Shiki since I started to read the translation, so I didn't put two and two together to realize that's where the preview voiceovers were from! I thought they were kind of odd, just stuck onto the end of the episode to build drama. Turns out they're actually canon, huh.
I'm not all that familiar with visual novels, how do they work? I've seen some screenshots, but I just always kinda thought they were like subtitled anime, except you have to click when you're ready to go to the next screen.
You could get away with just using characters, if you put them against some Shiki-esque background, like black and white photos of pine trees. That would be very Sotoba.

I'm really wondering how Ono will handle all the action at the end! So far the story's been slow-paced, I'm curious to read it fast-paced.

[personal profile] airlynx 2014-02-20 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think most writers when penning monster novels attempt to pick the best type of monster to play on the characters' fears, but they can certainly choose to I guess. I think the best villain would be one that can keep the story moving because it's usually the villain that makes the plot. I guess you can kinda say that the vampires reflect Ozaki's fears as a doctor because they bring in a seemingly incurable disease, but that's kind of an ass pull.
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that monsters that appear in dreams reflect specific fears in your subconscious. Usually when dreams appear, they provide some sort of insight into what scares the character.

I feel like I should try some VNs now. I've definitely heard of them before, but to be able to make choices in the story sounds like a cool idea. Do they involve the reader then, so the reader is a main character? Or is it like a video game where you pick a character to control?