Sinnesspiel (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sinnesspiel) wrote2014-01-24 07:13 pm
sinnesspiel) wrote2014-01-24 07:13 pm
Entry tags:
Shiki Novel Translations 2.4.5
5
The older brother, ostracized from the hill for the sin of killing his little brother, roamed the wasteland. The little brother became a Shiki and followed him. The older brother didn't know why he went so far as to become that to follow him. Trying to look back on how his brother had been in life, as expected, he couldn't deduce his little brother's intentions. Far from deducing it, he couldn't even clearly recall his little brother before he was a Shiki. Nor himself the moment he killed his little brother, nor his sentiments at that time.
And, thought Seishin as he lowered the sharpened tip of the pencil to the paper like the tip of a sword. He
had to give up on surmising his little brother's true feelings again today. Whenever he tried to gauge his little brother's intent, without fail he would be obstructed in his groping quest for answers by his own confusion; while staring at him without any other means, regret gradually build up in his chest, and he declined to think any more beyond that.
Hanging his head in shame, gazing at the shadow the color of his own sin at his feet and then turning back, his eyes turned to the hill that, as he'd become accustomed to by now, didn't seem to be growing further away at all. Actually, his little brother was not chasing after him from behind. His little brother was surely waiting in front of him to receive him.
Above the hill the clouds parted, golden afterglow raining down incessantly. Within it was the white, clear, clear splendor. Enshrined at the top of the town, the unforgiving light shone towards him.
He had always, or at least for the time he had been on the hill, been taught that to the east of that garden was a vast wasteland but actually standing in the wasteland looking at the hill, the hill was enclosed from all for directions by the wasteland. The reason that this land was said to be to the east may have only been because that was where the gate was.
The sterile and desolate lands fallen from God's hand was supposedly this place where he wandered but, in actuality, the greenery of the hill that existed in the middle of this sterile and desolate land was seen as a miracle of God, that hill beautifully arranged and placed in this wilderness.
Now he thought on it as mysterious. Did the wasteland exist around the hill or did the hill exist within the wasteland? Did the high ramparts enclosing the foot of the hill denote the terminus of God's order, or instead did it note the boundaries of God's miracle?
In either case, the hill was beautiful.
Hanging his head in shame, gazing at the shadow the color of his own sin at his feet and then turning back, his eyes turned to the hill that, as he'd become accustomed to by now, didn't seem to be growing further away at all. Actually, his little brother was not chasing after him from behind. His little brother was surely waiting in front of him to receive him.
Above the hill the clouds parted, golden afterglow raining down incessantly. Within it was the white, clear, clear splendor. Enshrined at the top of the town, the unforgiving light shone towards him.
He had always, or at least for the time he had been on the hill, been taught that to the east of that garden was a vast wasteland but actually standing in the wasteland looking at the hill, the hill was enclosed from all for directions by the wasteland. The reason that this land was said to be to the east may have only been because that was where the gate was.
The sterile and desolate lands fallen from God's hand was supposedly this place where he wandered but, in actuality, the greenery of the hill that existed in the middle of this sterile and desolate land was seen as a miracle of God, that hill beautifully arranged and placed in this wilderness.
Now he thought on it as mysterious. Did the wasteland exist around the hill or did the hill exist within the wasteland? Did the high ramparts enclosing the foot of the hill denote the terminus of God's order, or instead did it note the boundaries of God's miracle?
In either case, the hill was beautiful.
Seishin stopped for a bit and tilted his head. He was being chased by the hill. Would the hill he saw when turning back to look over the wilderness be seen as beautiful after all? Far from having any killing intent towards his brother, he didn't know the source of his own impulse.
That should have been to him a very shocking tragedy. In judgement for that, he was cursed and chased. That order that pressured him, the hill that he had been shut out of, was it something that he could praise so impartially?
(Of course, he could...)
He even now yearned for the hill he had been expelled from. From the beginning, that had been what he had intended.
In either case, the hill was beautiful. If he closed his eyes, he could remember how it looked to him.
Green fields drew gentle undulations, there white sheep herded, feeding in peace on the grass that spread out to the green forests. The houses that dotted it were lined together by a red stoned path, rising up towards the street where the sage lived, levying heavy taxes. The spire stood tall in the center of the town, at the top of which was the seat of God. None but the one chosen as the sage were allowed to climb it, and were they to climb it there would be not but the downpour of splendorous light; it had no form of which to speak but clearly there existed a will there.
Green fields drew gentle undulations, there white sheep herded, feeding in peace on the grass that spread out to the green forests. The houses that dotted it were lined together by a red stoned path, rising up towards the street where the sage lived, levying heavy taxes. The spire stood tall in the center of the town, at the top of which was the seat of God. None but the one chosen as the sage were allowed to climb it, and were they to climb it there would be not but the downpour of splendorous light; it had no form of which to speak but clearly there existed a will there.
(And he worshiped that will.)
---Even though it ostracized him?
(To him, the hill was a place that should be loved....)
---Even though it ostracized him?
(To him, the hill was a place that should be loved....)
At the center of that spire shone on by the splendor, drawing concentric circles, spreading out and downward towards the outside, a single hill's mound was shaped.
Surrounding the spire was the temple where the sage lived, and around the temple was the stone paved town. The surrounding outskirts of the village were lined in sprawling forests. The beautiful and quiet forest of beautifully linked branches was itself enveloped in the blueish greens of the fields.
The green fields expanded without end, eventually the greenery being mixed at intervals with white stones and red clays. At the ends of the lands of gently undulating hills which green draped over like a moss were gigantic castle walls.
Surrounding the spire was the temple where the sage lived, and around the temple was the stone paved town. The surrounding outskirts of the village were lined in sprawling forests. The beautiful and quiet forest of beautifully linked branches was itself enveloped in the blueish greens of the fields.
The green fields expanded without end, eventually the greenery being mixed at intervals with white stones and red clays. At the ends of the lands of gently undulating hills which green draped over like a moss were gigantic castle walls.
(Gigantic walls... Obstinate,
The sturdy ramparts, as if to shroud from the eyes of those who dwelt outside of it,
as if to reject the sinners exiled for eternity,
spread out, and then, at that eastern block, a small closed gate.
so that they could never return again...)
Seishin sighed hugely and abandoned his pencil. This is no good, he thought. His thoughts were slipping. He couldn't stop Ohtsuka Takayuki and Hiroko's faces from flashing faintly through some part of his mind
Sotoba was firmly united. On the other side of that unity was an obstinate tendency towards exclusion. Those who weren't parish families of the temple were, to the village, foreign substances. Rather, those who were formerly parish families that had defected from the temple would only naturally be seen as enemies more than foreign substances. They had cast off the faith that managed the villagers and took their leave for another faith of their choosing. Even when considering people's tendency to form groups, they couldn't help ostracizing those who those who were separated out like that.
But, Seishin thought. Why did groups of people have no choice but to act this way? Faith's foundation was of the heart, was it not something that brought about public peace through people's hearts? That it was separating people, becoming a just cause for ostracizing people---and that nobody had misgivings nor shame about that, Seishin had a difficult time standing.
Gentle smiles for those who were internal, and while showing that affection and love, showing those on the outside cold indifference and cruel conduct. That two sidedness could be felt most bleakly. Or was he the only one who struggled with such things as this?
With a disheartened breath, Seishin piled up his manuscripts. He wanted to continue with it but his writing just wasn't flowing. All the more self-conscious of his struggles, he gave up and returned the manuscript to the drawer. In exchange he took out the memo pad with the notes he'd gathered but, he didn't even feel like opening it. Having given up on even that, Seishin stood. Leaving the office, he took the flash light off of the shelf in the entryway in hand and went outside.
The presence of fall hid within the winds that blew through the fir trees. The voices of the insects were, different from their summer timbre, sounding somehow lonely. He took a glance at the sleeping village and crossed the temple grounds. Pushing his way through the mountains, he knew that fall, hiding within the forest and its underbrush, was looking to come out of hiding. Walking quietly, he headed straight to the abandoned building. Nowhere in the village, trying to live secluded out here, in this sanctuary that was naturally looked upon as an enemy to the system and order of which the temple was a nucleus, the one drug out of here was---him.
As if to note the recluse's biter mortification, the sanctuary inclined, falling into ruin. Entering within, there was the voice of one single cricket echoing desolately. The lonely chirping faded, then as if realizing that it had faded sounded again.
Seishin himself didn't remember when he lit the lamp. If he was just going to be spacing out doing nothing, he wouldn't need lamp light. None the less, he realized when he heard the sound of the sanctuary door opening that he might have remembered in his subconscious that Sunako had appeared once saying it was because she had seen the light.
When he turned his head, Sunako was walking down the short nave of the church. Brushing lightly along the backs of the benches lined up on one side, light footsteps approached.
"Good evening."
"Hi," was all Seishin returned.
"I'm just saying this for your benefit, but this is the first time I've come here since the last time. I've been behaving well in my home, you know. So, do somehow overlook it this time, won't you?"
Seishin smiled and nodded.
"And for the record, I had applied bug spray before coming, and as you can see I've worn long sleeves with closed cuffs. I'm wearing two layers of stockings, you know. I do hope that with this Muroi-san understands that I am not trying to disregard his warnings?"
"....I know."
I'm glad, Sunako murmured, taking a seat on the bench directly in front of Seishin. She sat little kit on the bench, both of her elbows on the back of the pew.
"Ebuchi and mother were most grateful. Of course, they absolutely won't leak it to the outside. ---To begin with, they wouldn't have either way, but."
"I see..."
"Is it the same as ever? You look depressed."
Seishin smiled bitterly. "I see.... I guess it is as usual. It looks like things have gotten a bit worse. But I can't see any solution."
Sunako nodded as if to urge him on, so Seishin briefly expressed that he'd been looking for common points amongst the victims but, regardless, hadn't been able to find any clues.
"With your duties to the temple, even while you have a job as an author, it must be hard. And yet with no results, it's a given that Muroi-san would be making such a face."
"Do I look that depressed?"
"You do. The same as last time. You look down." Sunako said with a small laugh. "Every time we meet here, it is certain that Muroi-san will be depressed, isn't it? Is it possible you run away to here when you are depressed?"
Seishin blinked. "Ah.... Indeed. You may be right."
"You weren't aware of it?"
"I guess I wasn't. That's right---it does certainly seem to be like this more often, overwhelmingly."
"It's better not to be too discouraged. After all, Muroi-san is not an epidemic specialist."
Seishin smiled faintly and shook his head. "It's not as if I'm particularly down about the lack of results."
"Then, why? Did some one pass away again?"
"No---. I've been following the victim's footprints, you see, and it's more than I'd come to know some not-too pleasant things."
"Not too pleasant things?"
Mm, Seishin looked out into the half destroyed interior of the sanctuary.
"Sotoba is a good place. There are many good tempered people living here, and it makes for a peaceful cycle. But because of that, the power to push aside any foreign substances is strong."
Sunako tilted her head, and then nodded as if understanding something. "I think that I understand. To be warm to those close to you means to be cold to those who are not. ---Is it like that?"
Right, Seishin nodded. Sunako put her chin in both of her hands, resting on the back of the pew. ".....And so, Muroi-san has come to hate the villagers?"
"No. That isn't it."
"You've come to hate the village maybe. So while you're suffering for the village's sake, you're sickened by it."
"That isn't what it is. Because I think that the power to gather people also being the power to exclude is an unavoidable providence. Surely that's the kind of being humans are. So I don't condemn it. But, I do think it's a little bit of a shame."
"If that's the case, then you'll have to cheer up. You have to investigate it properly and hurry up and solve what's happening. If the disease spreads like this, the villagers will end up noticing, and then Muroi-san will experience something even more painful."
That pricked at Seishin's heart. Gazing seriously at Sunako's face, he understood that that was true.
Indeed, it was so. If the situation kept worsening like this, eventually, the villagers would notice the existence of the sickness. If they did that, what would happen? The unions that were protected by going so far as to exclude others would be cut. Be they members of the same parish, be they bound by blood or regional bonds, fearing contamination, they would begin to ostracize each other. There was no way to avoid it.
"....It's just as you say."
"Isn't it? People are fragile when cornered. They're very weak beings."
Seishin nodded. ---Yes, this was no time to be down. He didn't have the time to struggle with something like this.
And, in his own heart Seishin felt shamed. It was no time for escaping into his manuscripts either. Even if just a moment sooner, he had to find a way to stop this calamity. Before the village brought about its own end from within.
Sotoba was firmly united. On the other side of that unity was an obstinate tendency towards exclusion. Those who weren't parish families of the temple were, to the village, foreign substances. Rather, those who were formerly parish families that had defected from the temple would only naturally be seen as enemies more than foreign substances. They had cast off the faith that managed the villagers and took their leave for another faith of their choosing. Even when considering people's tendency to form groups, they couldn't help ostracizing those who those who were separated out like that.
But, Seishin thought. Why did groups of people have no choice but to act this way? Faith's foundation was of the heart, was it not something that brought about public peace through people's hearts? That it was separating people, becoming a just cause for ostracizing people---and that nobody had misgivings nor shame about that, Seishin had a difficult time standing.
Gentle smiles for those who were internal, and while showing that affection and love, showing those on the outside cold indifference and cruel conduct. That two sidedness could be felt most bleakly. Or was he the only one who struggled with such things as this?
With a disheartened breath, Seishin piled up his manuscripts. He wanted to continue with it but his writing just wasn't flowing. All the more self-conscious of his struggles, he gave up and returned the manuscript to the drawer. In exchange he took out the memo pad with the notes he'd gathered but, he didn't even feel like opening it. Having given up on even that, Seishin stood. Leaving the office, he took the flash light off of the shelf in the entryway in hand and went outside.
The presence of fall hid within the winds that blew through the fir trees. The voices of the insects were, different from their summer timbre, sounding somehow lonely. He took a glance at the sleeping village and crossed the temple grounds. Pushing his way through the mountains, he knew that fall, hiding within the forest and its underbrush, was looking to come out of hiding. Walking quietly, he headed straight to the abandoned building. Nowhere in the village, trying to live secluded out here, in this sanctuary that was naturally looked upon as an enemy to the system and order of which the temple was a nucleus, the one drug out of here was---him.
As if to note the recluse's biter mortification, the sanctuary inclined, falling into ruin. Entering within, there was the voice of one single cricket echoing desolately. The lonely chirping faded, then as if realizing that it had faded sounded again.
Seishin himself didn't remember when he lit the lamp. If he was just going to be spacing out doing nothing, he wouldn't need lamp light. None the less, he realized when he heard the sound of the sanctuary door opening that he might have remembered in his subconscious that Sunako had appeared once saying it was because she had seen the light.
When he turned his head, Sunako was walking down the short nave of the church. Brushing lightly along the backs of the benches lined up on one side, light footsteps approached.
"Good evening."
"Hi," was all Seishin returned.
"I'm just saying this for your benefit, but this is the first time I've come here since the last time. I've been behaving well in my home, you know. So, do somehow overlook it this time, won't you?"
Seishin smiled and nodded.
"And for the record, I had applied bug spray before coming, and as you can see I've worn long sleeves with closed cuffs. I'm wearing two layers of stockings, you know. I do hope that with this Muroi-san understands that I am not trying to disregard his warnings?"
"....I know."
I'm glad, Sunako murmured, taking a seat on the bench directly in front of Seishin. She sat little kit on the bench, both of her elbows on the back of the pew.
"Ebuchi and mother were most grateful. Of course, they absolutely won't leak it to the outside. ---To begin with, they wouldn't have either way, but."
"I see..."
"Is it the same as ever? You look depressed."
Seishin smiled bitterly. "I see.... I guess it is as usual. It looks like things have gotten a bit worse. But I can't see any solution."
Sunako nodded as if to urge him on, so Seishin briefly expressed that he'd been looking for common points amongst the victims but, regardless, hadn't been able to find any clues.
"With your duties to the temple, even while you have a job as an author, it must be hard. And yet with no results, it's a given that Muroi-san would be making such a face."
"Do I look that depressed?"
"You do. The same as last time. You look down." Sunako said with a small laugh. "Every time we meet here, it is certain that Muroi-san will be depressed, isn't it? Is it possible you run away to here when you are depressed?"
Seishin blinked. "Ah.... Indeed. You may be right."
"You weren't aware of it?"
"I guess I wasn't. That's right---it does certainly seem to be like this more often, overwhelmingly."
"It's better not to be too discouraged. After all, Muroi-san is not an epidemic specialist."
Seishin smiled faintly and shook his head. "It's not as if I'm particularly down about the lack of results."
"Then, why? Did some one pass away again?"
"No---. I've been following the victim's footprints, you see, and it's more than I'd come to know some not-too pleasant things."
"Not too pleasant things?"
Mm, Seishin looked out into the half destroyed interior of the sanctuary.
"Sotoba is a good place. There are many good tempered people living here, and it makes for a peaceful cycle. But because of that, the power to push aside any foreign substances is strong."
Sunako tilted her head, and then nodded as if understanding something. "I think that I understand. To be warm to those close to you means to be cold to those who are not. ---Is it like that?"
Right, Seishin nodded. Sunako put her chin in both of her hands, resting on the back of the pew. ".....And so, Muroi-san has come to hate the villagers?"
"No. That isn't it."
"You've come to hate the village maybe. So while you're suffering for the village's sake, you're sickened by it."
"That isn't what it is. Because I think that the power to gather people also being the power to exclude is an unavoidable providence. Surely that's the kind of being humans are. So I don't condemn it. But, I do think it's a little bit of a shame."
"If that's the case, then you'll have to cheer up. You have to investigate it properly and hurry up and solve what's happening. If the disease spreads like this, the villagers will end up noticing, and then Muroi-san will experience something even more painful."
That pricked at Seishin's heart. Gazing seriously at Sunako's face, he understood that that was true.
Indeed, it was so. If the situation kept worsening like this, eventually, the villagers would notice the existence of the sickness. If they did that, what would happen? The unions that were protected by going so far as to exclude others would be cut. Be they members of the same parish, be they bound by blood or regional bonds, fearing contamination, they would begin to ostracize each other. There was no way to avoid it.
"....It's just as you say."
"Isn't it? People are fragile when cornered. They're very weak beings."
Seishin nodded. ---Yes, this was no time to be down. He didn't have the time to struggle with something like this.
And, in his own heart Seishin felt shamed. It was no time for escaping into his manuscripts either. Even if just a moment sooner, he had to find a way to stop this calamity. Before the village brought about its own end from within.
no subject
I have a question about the grammar, too: I've noticed sometimes 'but' is written with a comma after it, contrary to the usual English grammar rules that it would normally come before. Like "In exchange he took out the memo pad with the notes he'd gathered but, he didn't even feel like opening it." Is that kind of syntax directly from the Japanese text?
no subject
I kept saying I'd do a major comb through after book 1 but since that didn't happen, let's say I meant book 1 of 2.
no subject
I wanna offer helping edit the little grammar things, but I wouldn't know if you left some punctuation or the other in certain places to preserve the formatting, or if it was something to fix; but editing's a hefty task! It would probably be easier, if you were going to do a mass edit, to do it after finishing a chapter so you'll have to do less at a time. Also, and I always do this, if one goes on for a long time they end up glossing over stuff they would've fixed earlier.
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Translating is reading a book that I enjoy and want to get further on and gets people talking about a subject I like. Editing isn't fun, so it's easy to kind of "forget" to dedicate some time to...
Despite what it looks like I can write proper English so I really should get in the ball, either way.
no subject
I would say keep the period if the verbal tone is significantly different than a normal question, but if you imagine someone saying it in your mind and it's not much different than a normal question, to turn it into a question mark. I don't know, lol. It doesn't bother me if it's a period, doesn't bother me if it's a question either.
So would you say that translating a work helps you understand it better than if you just read it? Like maybe by translating it, you have to stop and think about the meaning of some words and how to express something similar in another language. Or does it slow you enough to decrease some enjoyment of it?
I think your linguistics essay has certified the fact that you are able to English ;V
no subject
Translating definitely makes me understand it better. No matter how confident I am I know something, writing it down commits it to memory the same way taking notes does. There's a bit coming up in tomorrow's chapter where Munetaka talks about how one's youngest children are the most precious (kawaii) because they're so needy or weak (using one of the same kanji as pitiful). I didn't catch that as a parallel to Sunako's until I had to sit down and note out Sunako's kawaii/kawaisou talk.
I say that I don't enjoy working on it it as much as I enjoy just watching or reading, but here I am translating, so I must enjoy translating and essaying and giving myself headaches over it, too. It's not really love if you're not longing to know your lover more and more, or something?
no subject
I thought so, it makes sense that writing down things helps you remember; like when reading, it's just natural to end up skimming sometimes. There are words you don't read (like for example there are some posts online that have a paragraph and then later it says, 'you didn't notice that 'the' was written twice') but if you translate, you kind of end up taking every word into account. That's cool of Ono, putting in a parallel like that! It's really crafty to sneak in references about. I wonder how many others there are that we haven't noticed.
I never liked analyzing, but now I regularly do it in the comments and I don't even mind. It's not often that one comes across a work that they are willing to examine over and over, so we should enjoy it when it does! Nerding out over Shiki would probably seem so weird to some others, the ones that find it really boring --but it's noooot~
no subject
no subject
I sometimes wish English was freer with its punctuation rules because sometimes to get the desired tone, it would be easier to incorrectly use a period or something. Yeah, if I would see a question with a period, it would seem sarcastic, rhetorical...kind of passive-aggressive like when people get into fights online (i.e. 'Honey, if you slept with my man what would make you think that I wouldn't be pissed.')
I think English as a language has a lot of set rules and over analyzes itself sometimes; I just learned this yesterday, but apparently Russian doesn't use or identify sound devices like alliteration or anything. Since alliteration is like a fact of life, that just seemed really weird!
8D
(Anonymous) 2014-02-04 12:08 pm (UTC)(link)Seishin is very reserved, an epitome of ideal -- but oftentimes, that reserved nature of his strikes me as awkwardness, even around Toshio. It's kinda curious to me. Why does he feel awkward around his own closest friend? A certain scene about him visiting Toshio in the hospital, but is stuck to the glass door until it's Toshio himself who has to usher him in is especially what alerts me. Not only that, I think there's a brand of awkwardness in his part of the conversations with Toshio. His actions and behaviors around him seem quite awkward to me.
When someone is that awkward towards someone else, I can name a few reasons:
1) Seishin's plain wary towards Toshio
2) Seishin's just socially awkward (but Toshio is not just 'people' to him, so is this really the case here? Besides, even if he was awkward around people when he was younger, he's relatively doing fine now, he has a job which expects him to be social after all)
3) He probably doesn't want Toshio to think relatively bad of him, so he's very careful of his behaviors (poor guy can never catch a break)
4) He isn't that emotionally attached to Toshio (so Toshio is just 'people' to him) (quite unlikely though)
5) Or is it because he's attached to Toshio that he becomes awkward? (usually people are awkward around their crushes after all)
6) He probably thinks Toshio will never get him anyway
7) He probably doesn't want to displease Toshio (that's why he looks after his behavior very carefully)
And as a person, I think Seishin is:
1) He desires peace. That's why he follows orders even if he doesn't actually want to. That's why he keeps his behaviors perfect. (and his arc is about war between his desires to keep peace and his desires to follow what he actually wants, which unfortunately clashes with the supposed ideal 'peace')
2) He could be a person who doesn't like to be seen as bad. That could be part of his desires to keep peace. (I think the little brother's story supports this)
3) Peace could mean 'less hassle'. He probably doesn't like much hassle.
no subject
Unfortunately as one who doesn't like the pair, I think it's Sunako he's least awkward around at this point. That she's a kid and him being too formal with her would just be strange probably helped him lower his guard.
8D
(Anonymous) 2014-02-11 09:57 am (UTC)(link)I want to stray a bit from canon now. Say, if Toshio and Seishin were lovers, what aspects do you think they have to work at to maintain their relationship? (to aim for a good relationship, definitely) What developments do you want to see? What changes both Toshio and Seishin have to make? They are exact opposite of each other, and that may make things difficult sometimes, but I know they can work.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2014-02-11 12:30 pm (UTC)(link)One thing they would have to work on is how to handle the entire "Ozaki is a married man" thing. No matter how loveless, Seishin, at least, must have some sense of propriety. Then there's Ozaki's mother. To say nothing of the temple and the rest of the villagers.
On a personal level, I think there are some integral things that just can't change; Ozaki is a utilitarian and Seishin is a moralist. While that would cause conflicts in any situation, I think they could manage to bend on those on occasion to each other providing it was never as drastic or life-and-death as it was in Shiki. But I don't think there's any way for their hypothetical relationship to survive something that hits at their core personalities so much. I think the fact that neither wants the other to abandon themselves is part of the charm of their relationship. In that sense, they might both be romantics.
8D
(Anonymous) 2014-02-11 02:42 pm (UTC)(link)Basically my last reply was intended as what-if situations, as in yes -- realm of AU, I think. Because canon Toshio and Seishin may not even have romantic feelings for each other. (I tend to think that Toshio may have feelings for Seishin, while less convinced about Seishin but I could be wrong) so in a what-if situations where Toshio and Seishin actually love each other enough to be in a committed relationship, what do they have to do to maintain good relationship? What changes they must make (if any, from both sides), because if not, their relationship will be threatened? How do they compromise? Assume they aim for long-lasting, happy relationship -- but considering the circumstances (I was thinking about including everything except all the shiki situation because it's not their default mode) obviously there are bumps on the roads. What must they do to get through it all?
...I hope that isn't too weird though.
Or: say in an AU where these men actually love each other enough that they want to be committed to each other, a non-Shiki AU, what are the developments you want to see/you can see happening? Can they actually make it to relationship? What changes/sacrifices they must make if say they aim for long-lasting relationship? (I mean from their behaviors/personalities first -- like I think Toshio will want Seishin to open up/loosen up a little, Toshio better be less selfish etc) How do they compromise? Finally, what do you see about the future of this relationship?
I hope this doesn't end up confusing to everyone ;~; I'm sorry if this sounds weird. Everyone can input their thoughts, uhmm if you want! This is meant to be some analyzing of a what-if situation.
no subject
Hm, if it were an AU, I end up thinking Seishin would actually be the one making the most small concessions. He would have to put up with Ozaki's foul moods where he wouldn't bother to restrain himself, while Seishin being Seishin would probably manage to temper his own mood even on bad days. But I think Seishin would also while making those concessions and taking his verbal abuse make it clear that he was tolerating it, not excusing it, and that Ozaki would later feel guilty and make it up to him. In the end he may try a little harder to be less snippy at least with him, rather than falling into a cycle of abuse-honeymoon. But he'd probably just end up demanding more coddling rather than learning to restrain himself. It'd be a slow change from "I had a bad day and I hate everyone, you're annoying too!" to "I had a bad day and I hate everyone but you, hey, run my bath and bring me dinner in there, then get in with me and..."
Somehow, I think Toshio would secretly like Seishin's reticent, reserved manner and would enjoy the work it takes to 'sneak in' to get his feelings by reading him. I don't think he'd want to change that part of him. When Seishin did loosen up around him a little, he'd probably fuss about Seishin only being like that around him, saying it's unfair, but he'd secretly be flattered.
...I don't understand Seishin as well so saying what he'd do or want is harder for me.
8D
(Anonymous) 2014-02-13 12:41 pm (UTC)(link)I think Seishin is the type who once loves someone, he'll be a very loving person to them. I think he'll be even more giving, but yes doesn't mean he's gonna tolerate Toshio forever. I don't know, but oftentimes I see Seishin 'tolerating' Toshio (the canon situations) as a sort of act of ignorance. The more pessimistic part of me thinks that it's because he doesn't feel attached to Toshio enough to try correcting him, that he doesn't actually care in a sense about Toshio that he doesn't care even when he's being a bad person. (he's idealistic after all), but I think the more logical reason would be that he might have done that numerous times in the past but no changes, so he stops altogether and because he desires peace causing small arguments won't be worth it. At least, even if he seems tolerating, he'd make his displeasure known. Because he cares. So yeah I'd agree with you.
Toshio. He'd demand more coddling which may seem annoying (definitely is) but he pretty much looks after Seishin. He'd worry for him, be more empathetic, but will still be demanding. Maybe even more. But Seishin being Seishin I think Toshio will still be aware that there exists a part of him that's purely independent, which can never be contained which belongs to himself only. Which doesn't follow anyone but himself, a very private side that Toshio can only watch from afar.
no subject
Now that you mention it, he makes no attempt to be anyone else's breaks, including the murderous Shiki.
Maybe I'm projecting myself onto Ozaki now, but the part of Seishin you can't have would probably be part of the draw keeping things from falling into the less passionate complacency attributed to married couples in Sotoba.
Maybe both of their attractions would be that insufferable part of the other. The more you love someone, the more you want to kill them?
...No, I think it's just that I like contentious relationships.
8D
(Anonymous) 2014-02-20 06:50 am (UTC)(link)I'm certainly more pessimistic with Seishin, don't really know why. That's why I can't really see him loving Toshio in canon, while strangely I'm less pessimistic about Toshio in terms of his feelings for Seishin. (not that I'm 100% sure that he's crushing on Seishin anyway, but he's certainly way more attached emotionally) I can think of a few reasons of Seishin feeling committed to Toshio without feeling the slightest bit romantic.
I guess that's just the kind of person Seishin is. He feels obligated, that's part of it definitely. He's a natural follower -- especially with a commanding presence like Toshio. He lets himself be steered, given directions. Seishin is actually loyal. But when he truly disagrees with something and he cannot accept it, he leaves (and perhaps will never look back. It still amuses me that the one looking back in the end is Toshio)
Well, most of it just feelings anyway. But I've noticed that Seishin's personalities have many similarities with mine, so I think I can sorta feel what he feels given the situations. I think. Heee.
I think it's natural that people are attracted to things that are different from them. (the insufferable parts you mentioned here) But in Seishin's case, I think he'll be actually more comfortable with people who are more similar to him in the long run. People who like peace and dislike hassles usually prefer easy, constant things and dislike challenges. I predict he'll get stuck to Sunako for a long time, but I doubt it'll get romantic anyway. I have feelings that romance isn't his goal too. I kinda wish for a more badass Seishin now that he becomes Jinrou in the end, because he seems so different.